fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1898 ]

[ SECRET POST #1898 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1898 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 65 secrets from Secret Submission Post #271.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

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03. http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/7283/xcvxbb.jpg

You're dead-on, anon. A lot of things bugged me about this movie, but that part drove me fucking crazy.

So you're not the only one.

Arrogance is, basically, thinking your better than everyone else. Which means looking down on other's usually...and that makes it hard to make friends. It's also something that you can make a conscious effort to change.

By the same token, traits like being...well, less than bright, aren't that easy to change. You can't suddenly go from being the dimmest bulb in the box, to be Einstein.

Granted, I've never seen either movie - but if your complaint is about learning to accept people, and not be arrogant then...Sorry. I'm not getting it.

Yes, this really bugs me too. You should accept people for how they are, but not necessarily for how they choose to act. This kind of thing also always bugs me when people lump "smart" into a list of attributes like "kind, polite, accepting, respectful". You can't control whether or not you're smart.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-03-15 02:57 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

intrigueing.livejournal.com - 2012-03-15 05:32 (UTC) - Expand

I never saw the 2nd movie, but after reading this I probably would have hated it. and I really love the first one. If McQueen has to learn to accept Mater the way he was, then why was it a problem for everyone else if McQueen was an arrogant douche? By the second movie's logic, shouldn't they have accepted him the way he was? I can see why it bugs you, anon.

Other people have said it better than me, but the reason McQueen had to change in the first movie is because he was too arrogant and was being rude to the other cars. Being rude is a choice. Contrast that with Mater's "fault", which was that he's not very bright. Mater may have messed things up from time to time, but it was always due to an honest mistake.

Personally, I liked both movies.

Copying and pasting what I said at

disneysecret: I think that Lightning McQueen, unlike Mater, had a reason to change. Lightning was incredibly selfish and judgmental of anything that didn't include the superstar treatment he was used to. Mater had never been outside of his comfort zone, so he wasn't used to the way the rest of the world worked, but he was still a nice guy car who cared about people and, unlike Lightning, didn't insult people for being different.

That's because you're finding the wrong message, OP--you've gotta mix the two.

"You have to change to suit others, unless you're a lovable idiot." See? Simple.

I haven't seen either movie so I could be getting this wrong, but it seems obvious why a good person would be expected to be patient with a well-meaning slow person and impatient with an arrogant douche who treated people badly. Don't both come down to the idea that if you want to make a friend you have to be a friend?

Not having seen either movie, I think what they're trying to say is 1)You can't expect others to like you if you choose to be a douche, and 2)don't try to change other people, which is not really contradictory. But I can't speak to how well that was handled.

I haven't seen the second one, and while I think it's really cool that I'm not the only one who puts this much thought into the morals of kids movies (outside of the racial/gender implications and such, which I know many people put a lot of thought into)... I have to admit that this probably wouldn't have bothered me?
I'm probably in the complete minority here, but I have 0 tolerance for arrogant, conceited, douchey protagonists. None. Nada. I don't find it charming or lovable or cute; I don't care if it's justified by their talents or intelligence. Snobs drive me up a wall; and it's partially now because people find those types of characters so likable despite their douchery that I feel like people who are like that are starting to embrace it and ffs being a douche is hurtful and mean and not an embrace-worthy trait (and by "people" I mean one person in particular. Sheldon Cooper is not a role model, don't make me slap you. You already pretty much singlehandedly destroyed me in middle school to the point where I was just going to give up- you're nicer now, don't blow it, kiddo.)

But I love characters like Mater- Maters and Brittany Pierces and Marshall Eriksens and Rubeus Hagrids and simple nice guys (not Nice Guys) are the best kind of characters and people, imo. It's a little hypocritical, but... it's hypocritical in the direction I agree with :P I understand your frustration, though- I could probably write an essay on contradicting morals in kids stories.

Marshall isn't really simple though. I mean a nice guy sure, but Marshall's dad is probably a better fit in that category.

OP -

I always tend to put a lot of thought into the morals of kids movies. It kind of bothers me when people brush them off because they're for kids. Aren't kids the ones who will be most affected by the morals of a kids movie? Shouldn't we expect the morals in the movies we show our kids to be of the highest quality? I don't think people put enough thought into it.

I agree with your opinion about arrogant people. I have no tolerance for them either. I couldn't stand Lightning McQueen in the first movie and hoped he'd learn his lesson by the end of the movie. However, I didn't feel that Mater was just a "nice guy" in the second movie. He was downright obnoxious. And he was rude to some of the characters. The sushi chef tried to warn him about the wasabi, but he refused to listen to him. He demanded the chef give him a big scoop of the "ice cream" while the chef tried to be polite. He was sweet and fun in the first movie, but over the top in the second.

I'm all for simple nice guy characters, but I don't consider Mater in the second movie to be one of them.

I was just telling somebody about how much I hate the Cars movies. Nice coincidence.

As someone who has seen the movie, I think you've missed the message that they were trying to convey. The essential difference between Mater and McQueen in the first movie was that Mater meant well and tried to be decent to other people, even if he's not terribly bright; McQueen, on the other hand, was unreceptive to any kindness because he just didn't know how to behave any other way than competitively.

Both films are about friendship and the bonds we share with other people, they just focused on different aspects of that idea.

OP -

I fully agree that Lightning needed to make a change in the first movie. I just felt like Mater needed to make a change in the second movie as well and was treated like he could do no wrong instead. I felt like he was being deliberately obtuse to what was going on around him. You don't run up to an area where everyone is being quiet and start shouting. You don't rush onto a stage and cause a scene for your friend. This all happened before Mater was mistaken for a spy. I like Mater, especially in the first movie, but I felt like they brushed off every unacceptable behavior of his as nothing more than his personality.

I couldn't get through that movie. I really liked the first one but fuck I hate Mater.

this. once i realized the second movie was all about mater, it went downhill from there for me.

Seriously? Are you seriously implying that being stupid is a character flaw just like being a douche? WTF?

I mean, I guess some of the things Mater does are socially inappropriate, and if THAT'S what you mean he needs to change I guess I sort of understand. Even then, the two things aren't really comparable: the difference is, Lightning knows he's being a douche. Mater was trying as hard as he could, but still causing annoyances to people on accident. So, yeah, I'm much more accepting of people like Mater than Lightning.

OP -

I wasn't trying to imply that being stupid is a character flaw like being a douche. I apologize if that's how my secret came off. I felt like Mater was being inappropriate and refused to listen to anyone when he was called out on his behavior. He couldn't understand why Lightning might be upset with his actions and then the rest of the characters brushed it off as "Mater being Mater." I can't stand the idea that "boys will be boys" and therefore shouldn't have to be responsible for their actions. I don't believe Mater was trying as hard as he could. I felt like he wasn't trying at all.

That's pretty much what I thought, too. Mater might have meant well, but that doesn't diminish his responsibility when he screwed up. It's been a while since I saw the movie, but I don't remember him apologizing or at least trying to see why his friends were upset.
Not being smart is not a free pass to being inconsiderate.

I kinda disagree with everyone else on this thread. There's a difference between simply not understanding something, and not understanding something and forging ahead anyway. The latter is in fact something you can change and is akin to arrogance for me. That's my problem with characters like Mater. They either 1) don't get that they're ignorant and/or 2) don't care and try to do things they're incapable of without asking for help or understanding. That's not okay.

I'm gonna agree with you. Mater screwed up and he should have apologized, but instead we were supposed to see Lightning as the bad guy for being upset with Mater for being incompetent.

OP -

This is exactly what I meant when I described him as "simple and ignorant." I loved him in the first movie. I thought he was sweet, but I found him obnoxious and unwilling to understand Lightning's position in the second movie.

Being a pompous ass hurts those around you, being 'simple' is just a trait.

Is this just so hard to get? Apparently even kids do.

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