[ SECRET POST #1958 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1958 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 104 secrets from Secret Submission Post #280.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

As a chronically ill, in-pain-all-the-time person who has to take meds that might just kill me in order to work a low-paying job just to scrape by, these same SJW people misappropriated 'spoon theory' to talk about how they don't have the mental energy to fight with people on the internet. They can shove it up their own misappropriating asses.

[(Anonymous)]

I had no idea what that was, so I looked it up. Then I wanted to know how it could apply to mental disorders but got results varying from "that's really offensive, quit appropriating" all the way up to "yeah, definitely" (but without any elaboration) so I guess this is my chance to ask someone who knows more about it, what's the general consensus on that and if it can be applied that way, how might it play out?

[(Anonymous)]

I'll answer, nonnie! :) The "spoon theory (http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory-written-by-christine-miserandino/)" is just a cute analogy used to explain chronic illness (mental illness, chronic pain, endocrine issues, etc.) to people who don't have those experiences so they can understand what we're going through. The idea is that every person has a certain number of 'spoons' in their personal silverware drawer that they can use every day. For a person with a chronic illness, simple every day actions like 'getting on the bus' or 'making a sandwich' costs a spoon. We have fewer spoons than healthy people, and we can't just go 'buy more' by getting a little extra sleep or taking our vitamins. We have to make conscious choices, every day, about what we can and can't handle. And the things that cost us spoons may be free for healthy people. A lot of people take for granted the ability to walk up stairs, or bend over to pick up a dropped fork, or the ability to step outside.

This is also why people like the poster above get upset when SJW start flinging around 'spoons' in online arguments (almost always when they are losing, I'll note). While I agree that sometimes it costs me 'spoons' to interact with strangers, I have a little less sympathy if that is your response to an argument you started.

[(Anonymous)]

I understand the metaphor, but I still don't know if it's okay to use it to elaborate on mental disabilities, or only physical, or some mental but not others, yada yada. I hope I'm not upsetting anyone by asking, I don't want to undermine anyone's physical problems or anything like that.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's fine. The author herself says, "I think it isn’t just good for understanding Lupus, but anyone dealing with any disability or illness." Today I heard for the first time of this theory, and as someone who is severely depressed but has trouble explaining to people how it impacts on my life, I feel like I have found a great way to explain it to someone.The mental exhaustion after tiny tasks like just cleaning up in the morning or going to the kitchen for a snack is real. The fact that I have to spend a day or two in bed after attending a single lecture is real. But you know, how can I make a person who isn't depressed understand? Hell, it was kind of difficult for me to understand! I mean, it's not fun realising that, no, today you won't get up, and you probably won't eat anything or do anything except lie around, and every time you try to get up you just feel so terrible that you have to lie down again and just accept that today you are just going to lie here and stare at the ceiling. (Not to mention that that's not a good way to explain it either! Because if you aren't depressed, you might not even see what's so bad about that. Lying around sounds so relaxing. You don't do anything, you don't talk to anyone, you just chill in your bed. Awesome. And if you get bored, you just get up and do fun stuff. Except, no, it's not like that.)

[fuchsiascreams.livejournal.com]

Thank you for posting this. This is a great idea. It's really, really difficult to try explaining mental illness (particularly ones that sap your energy and prevent you from physically being able to do things, like depression or anxiety) to people who have never experienced it before. This is a really great analogy, thank you. I'm going to use it the next time someone in my immediate family calls me lazy for being on disability instead of just "getting out of the house more, eating better, doing yoga, and getting a job". Everyone thinks I'm so lucky for being able to lie around all day and do what I want on the country's dollar, but I promise you that it isn't fun, and I don't feel lucky for regularly being so exhausted that I have to sleep on the couch because I literally do not have enough energy to make it upstairs to my bedroom.

[kryss-labryn.livejournal.com]

Ugh. As someone who lived through their own bout of serious depression lasting for many years (and who still deals with minor depression issues almost every day), this was the best insider's look at depression I've ever come across. Might be useful to point people who just don't get it at this:

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.ca/2011/10/adventures-in-depression.html (http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.ca/2011/10/adventures-in-depression.html)

I know my own mum very much had the "Just buck up and get over it" attitude (living in another town she never saw the effects on me first-hand) until one day she called while I was having one of my lower points and I literally couldn't form coherent words, let alone sentences. That was the point at which she realized it really was actually something that impaired my ability to do things, right down to my ability to talk at times, and started to look into it more, and discovered it actually wasn't just all in my head or whatever. Wish I could have showed her "Adventures in Depression" back then!

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's for those who genuinely do have limited spoons, regardless of whether it's a physical or mental chronic illness. Not just once in awhile, though, but all the time. Not just 'I had a bad day, my spoons are limited', but 'I have a disease that limits my spoons every day, all the time and I need to budget myself all the time.'

One thing it definitely isn't fair to do is for normally abled types to rip it off because they have to do their damn laundry or they can't keep up with their twitter feed because they're pissed off at shippers in another part of fandom. Which I saw today. Or, again, because they've run out of focus to beat people up over the internet anymore. Especially since these same assholes cry appropriation over EVERYTHING.

I feel for anyone who has to use this metaphor to explain chronic illness, since most people think, "But you LOOK okay!" I'd rather be healthy and never have to explain to people what it's like. But since I'm not, no, I really don't care for a bunch of SJWs stealing it.

[elialshadowpine]

... I'm glad I'm not the only one annoyed by that. /fellow chronic-pain person

[(Anonymous)]

<3

[(Anonymous)]

What if I have other kinds of mental disorders that consume my energy and limit what I can actually spend my day doing? Would I be appropriating the metaphor then?

/agreed that able-bodied and able-minded people should not use the spoon metaphor, though.

[(Anonymous)]

That depends, do you waste your "spoons" on arguing with internet strangers and then compare it to the examples the above person cited of the struggles of chronic illness of any kind?

[(Anonymous)]

Not usually, no. I don't have chronic pain, it'd be completely inappropriate to compare our experiences, on both sides. They're different things to struggle with daily and shouldn't be confused.

It's just a good way to expain to my RL friends why I have difficulty communicating clearly or have trouble maintaining energy levels for any length of time before my ability to focus and DO things goes completely out the window for the rest of the day (and sometimes for some of the next day). While I do occasionally have arguments online, I tend not use the spoons argument there because my mental disorders don't always compromise my energy or ability to think in that setting.

[(Anonymous)]

Damn it. Now that I know this exists, I'm going to have a hard time not thinking of it and applying to myself. Maybe I don't understand how one group can own a perfecty good metaphor but I always try to respect people and I'm sure I would probably be upset if I had chronic pain and some guy decided to talk in front of my face about how he doesn't have enough spoons to go grocery shopping today....

[(Anonymous)]

Try "I'm worn out."

[(Anonymous)]

I guess because it's so damn hard for us to explain to non-chronically ill folks, especially when we have an 'invisible' disorder. I have rheumatoid arthritis. You can't see it, but it hurts me all the time, every day. It beats me up, the meds I take mean I get sick easier, have a compromised immune system and I've had the same cold for five weeks now, no joke. I have very limited energy, especially right now. And some days, I have a few extra spoons, but I never, ever have as many as someone without a chronic illness.

But when you try to explain it to someone, they look at you. I'm not very old; I was diagnosed at twenty-eight. They look at you and go, "But you're so young, you'll be fine." They expect you to keep up with them, keep up with everything, because you don't look sick. They think you're lazy because you went to work, then came home and fell into a daze and couldn't do housework or cooking or anything, because you're sore and exhausted and your mind is foggy. I'm lucky because I even can work; I'm unlucky because I have no choice, it's work or die for me and I have three people, two of them young children, relying on me for survival.

So, this silly-but-meaningful-story about spoons gives us a tool to explain to people. What it's like to always have to be aware of your limitations, and just how limited those are compared to before, when you were healthy. It gives them something concrete to grab onto, instead of abstract.

Which is why I think it's fair we should own the perfectly good metaphor. ;-)

[fuchsiascreams.livejournal.com]

That is so fucking offensive and insensitive.