fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1958 ]

[ SECRET POST #1958 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1958 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 104 secrets from Secret Submission Post #280.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I get that, I was just saying that it makes a very good example of the many ways in which bronies are disgusting. :\

See, I get that, but the thing is.. you know, sf_d isn't inherently a horrible place full of horrible people. People don't "name themselves" sf_ders as a symbol of anything. People name themselves "bronies", which is a name which inherently excludes women and girls. Their entire subculture excludes pretty much anyone who isn't a white straight cis able-bodied man. A huge portion of their subculture is devoted to "saving" an ableist caricature ("Derpy"), and that same portion behaves hideously towards women -- especially disabled women -- who dare to protest that. They behave with a seriously entitled attitude towards the show and are constantly saying that "bronies" are the show's "target demographic" (patently untrue) or should be, that "men make up 90% of the fans" (also untrue), and that for those reasons the show should cater to them.. flaming female fans for daring not to like "bronies" or the fact that they are a fan group that explicitly excludes women... etc.

And well, by generalizing bronies (the same way one might "generalize" that misogynists are bad people, because they are, and bronies are inherently misogynists), I'm not generalizing "all MLP:FiM fans" the way you're referencing wrt Supernatural fans. There are plenty of sane, awesome MLP:FiM fans. They just don't call themselves "bronies."

Are there probably fans of MLP:FiM who call themselves "bronies" because they don't know any better? Sure, probably. But it's their responsibility to educate themselves and distance themselves from that label. When they see someone saying "bronies are terrible fucking people," they need to open their damn eyes and go look and see WHY they said that, not just cling to the label and be like "Oh but not all of us are like that!"

I think there's something really disingenuous, tbh, about the idea that you can only be for social justice and peace if you never, ever hate anyone ever. I hate misogynists. I hate homophobes. I fucking hate Ron Paul and Mitt Romney and just about every other Republican politician. I don't think that diminishes my goals. Sure, hate isn't ideal. But you can only be stepped on so many times before you start hating the people who are fucking stepping on you, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I hate bronies because they're misogynists, and racists, and homophobes, and transphobes, and ableists. I hate them because they took something nice and sweet that deserves a safe space and turned it into a space where women can be threatened with rape because they don't toe the brony line. I hate them because even their NAME is sexist, and because I hate the entitlement they reek of. And I hate them because every single person who calls themselves a brony is showing that they're totally okay with all of that, and supportive of it, and espousing of those same views, and that makes me feel sick.

I don't like to get involved in this shit, but your friend is trying to say something really important that you're completely missing out on. They are scared you're going to hate them over SJ- and not even something they've personally done, just SJ guilt by association. Meanwhile, you're so busy explaining why every good person should hate bronies that you either didn't notice or care that someone who you mean a lot to is worried that you hate them.

Then again, I guess being a decent friend isn't some big SJ cause or anything. Have fun with that.

Thanks for your condescension. I did understand that, actually, but -- not that it's any of your business or anything -- I've explained to said friend before that that isn't going to happen, and I didn't feel it necessary to address it, especially in a public forum like this, and also considering the mood I was in at the time due to all of the comments on this thread.

And that's as far as I'm willing to take this comment, so thanks for the crap and please gtfo.

I hope you get to talk to each other about this :(

I think I'll send a P.M now if that's alright. I'm not able to answer it until Saturday, but I'll send one tonight.

Edit: One last thing thing. In New Orleans, I had a roomie, R. R was made of tougher stuff than I am and ze listened to conservative talk radio, feeling that "you have to know what your enemies are saying". I tried it for a bit before I just could not. Needless to say, a lot of those words stuck in my mind.

What frightens me is that sometimes in what you say, there are sentences where, if I replaced the nouns with a "liberal counterpart" it would be nearly indistinguishable from something broadcast on conservative talk radio. I know your intentions are good, but I think you get what I'm saying now.

Edited 2012-05-14 18:02 (UTC)

D8

holy shit

you're right.

i'm not really involved in this conversation (and i'm not going to pass any judgements on anyone), but i'm going to try to think harder about how i phrase things from now on.

thank you for pointing this out.

already replied to your pm, but to your eta:

There is a huge, huge, oceans wide gulf between conservative hate speech a la Rush Limbaugh and more liberal lashing out against bigotry. It is a really disturbing false equivalence when people think that liberals getting fed up at bigotry and angry at bigots and judging people by the values they hold and the groups they affiliate with that are bigoted, and a conservative expressing hate for, discriminating against, advocating hate and violence towards minorities. Huge. Saying theyre similar because both are angry is just... kind of gross tbh. Really.

And now Im gonna go. Sorry for any typos, Im on my tab.

If I was you, I would be seriously rethinking my association with this loon. From how I've seen them act on F!S they're basically a reverse Rush Limbaugh. D:

Yes, being vehemently against bigotry is EXACTLY THE SAME as being a bigot! Uh huh! Right!

You're an idiot.

It is very easy to become what you despise. In your crusade to rid the world of bigotry, you've become as bad as what you're fighting. Nietzsche said it best- "battle not with monsters lest you become one, and when you gaze into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."

You, sir/madam, have become just as corrupt as what you're fighting against, and it's literally painful to watch. So yes, you basically are what Limbaugh would be if his political beliefs did a complete 180.

Uh-huh.

Okay, sure.

Tell me, PLEASE tell me, who am I oppressing by being anti-bigotry? Who am I doing serious harm to? Whose rights am I denying? What LAWS am I advocating that would cause serious harm to people by being against bigotry? Please, I am just DYING to know.

You'd be fucking hilarious if your false equivalence didn't make me so damn sad for the world.

Your hatred only begets more hate, and when people see that you hate them, their own hatred grows. And you aren't exactly anti-bigotry, you are just as hateful as the people you claim to fight against. Look at your responses to the people who were being perfectly reasonable in this thread. Look at your responses to someone who is your friend- that is not friendship. That is pure cruelty and emotional manipulation.

Maybe someday you will see this, but I honestly have very little hope that you will. You've become addicted to outrage, and it's harder to kick that habit than it is to stop smoking crack.

To reasonable people I have been fairly reasonable in response. However, since they decided to come into the thread in the middle of a fairly charged discussion, for lack of a better word, yes, I did get snappish and use some angry language (here please distinguish between "angry language" and "actually insulting someone"). I've admitted several times on f!s that I often appear much angrier than I am. /shrug Call it a flaw.

As for my brief discussion here with my friend, I'll thank you not to assume you're getting the full story just from what's here. Not least because I seemed to ignore or breeze over several things because we've had this exact same debate before and I had already talked to them about those things. And I fail to see where I was emotionally manipulative or cruel.

And yeah, I'm basically blowing you off because I tend to pay little or no attention to the kinds of assholes who barge in and decide that my being angry at misogyny is the exact same thing as the right trying to deny me the right to marry.

Misogyny is like an AK-47 of a word, and you keep pulling it out when a pellet gun would do.

You're over-the-top. Someone using a word you don't like in anger doesn't necessarily make them a misogynist. Maybe a bit of an ass, but misogyny is a very, very specific word that loses meaning when you toss it out any time someone says "twat" or "bitch."

Okay, um, first of all, the "bitch" and other words threads were in other posts; I assumed (perhaps naively) that we were discussing my posts in this thread.

As to that, I have calmed down considerably on the language issue. I do still feel that those words are misogynist, though. And I don't consider it a bad thing to call them what they are.

And brony culture, as it were, IS misogynist. The word is -- "brony" is a men-only subfandom/subculture group that purposely excludes women. They also browbeat, threaten, insult, hurl slurs at, etc. woman fans if they dare to think they have a space in the fandom. Further, they act as if because they are men, their opinions, feelings, and fandom of the show are more valid and more important than those of the female fans the show was made for (particularly, I've seen bronies en masse throw fits over the fact that MLP toys are made with - gasp! - little girls in mind, not grown men). They essentially seek to co-opt a show that was made for women and girls because they are men and have decided that space should be theirs, and that is misogynistic.

Misogyny is a word that should be used whenever misogyny occurs or is present. It doesn't "lose its meaning" because we use it to address even more subtle, culturally-validated forms of misogyny like sexist language (bitch, etc.), magazine covers, or subcultural groups where misogyny is normalized and enabled (bronies, the Republican party, etc.).

Just so you know, I'm never going to give up on you. Not just because there's good in everyone, but because I've seen the good in you and it's too good to just say "forget it, not worth saving".

And I'll promise you this, too: if one day you find another battle plan in the crusade, I would no sooner bring up your old methods than I would bring up my birth name. 'Cause that's not who we are anymore, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Thanks, I guess? I don't really see where I'm being "bad" except that I got pissed off.

Love this comment.

I can see how from an outside Point of View, your advice is out of serious concern. At the risk of sounding like a pretentious dizzy-headed loon myself, the moment I read your reply, the opening lines of DMB's "Cry Freedom" went through my head- How can I turn away? Brother, Sister go dancing through my head, human as to human. Maybe the whole song.

I could extrapolate about how doing that would be the same as helping to lock her in eternal hate prison (which nobody should ever have to be in), but the base answer is I can't think of any other explanation than "how can I turn away?".

Lemmie put it this way- suppose 24 year old Rush Limbaugh had a friend he respected- a white, rich hetero male- who never stopped saying "Hey, Rush, listen... that's not alright what you're saying. You're better than that. Let's go do something positive"? It might have... weird, I kinda just feel like crying. I think it's the song.

At the very least, the anon previous to you said s/he's rethinking how they word things, so that's one less bit of hate in the world. That's good.

Hmm, that does make sense. And maybe you are right, maybe it would have saved him and he wouldn't have become what he is today.

But there comes a point in time when an individual passes the point of no return. Limbaugh crossed that line a long time ago, and I fear your friend may have done the same. But you know them better than I do, and you probably have a better barometer for it, but please, do not get sucked in. You seem like such a sweet person, from what I've seen of your posts. It makes me sad to see you so obviously upset by this other user. Friends don't treat friends like that. :(

(I'm sorry if this comes off as pretentious, too- I've just seen so many relationships like this in the past that end badly, both IRL and online).

SA

But you are right about one thing. A friend wouldn't lock another friend in an eternal hate prison, to use your phrase. But you should take care to not get yourself locked in too.

Argh, I shouldn't read F!S when I've been drinking. Whisky makes me maudlin.

Maudlin away, BB. The thing is, I've been there. In high school, I was an absolute beast of a Limbaugh, complete with listening to Air America and calling meat eaters murderers. I don't quite know what got me to calm down, but it happened.

I promise you I'm not upset by the other user. I can't get upset with people! I get upset thinking "what horrible things did you go through that made you like that? That must've been really bad for you".

No getting sucked in. I can assure you, I have safeguards. A strict 3:1 ratio of positive happy things to negative things. I spend most of my days in mortuary school, and lemmie tell you, if there ever was a reminder of "what good is it in the end?" that's it. Aside from that, there's always plenty of humor and RPing and knowing when to say out loud "I'm going to remove myself from this situation". Which I suppose I should do now. Time for more microbiology and a lie down.

Thank you for your concern, but I'm just hoping that you're taking care of yourself. Just remember WWPD: What Would Pinkie Pie Do?

Thanks. And you too.

BTW, this is totally what Pinkie Pie would do. :P

Best of luck. ♥

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #1958 ]

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