[ SECRET POST #1976 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1976 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.
[Ivanhoe]


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02.
[NHL: Chicago Blackhawks]


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03.
[Being Human US]


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04.
[Thor]


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05.
[Glee]


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06.
[azealia banks ft lazy jay]


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07.
[DBSK]


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08.
[Stand By Me]


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09.
[Glee/Game of Thrones]


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10.
[Torchwood]


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11.
[Avengers, Loki]


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12.
[Game of Thrones]


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13.
[Sakamichi no Apollon/Sex Pistols]


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14.
[The Neverending Story]


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15.
[Grey Is]


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16.
[Game of Thrones]


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17.
[Keane]


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18.
[Drive]


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19.
[Dallas]


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20.
[Lisa Eldridge]


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Notes:

Moving to Dreamwidth on June 2nd. Official announcement here for anyone who missed it!

In addition, Community Rec meme over on DW! A bunch of recs have already been left there, maybe you'll find an interesting comm. Or go promote yours!

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 022 secrets from Secret Submission Post #282.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

04. http://tinyurl.com/7qblwf6
[Thor]

[sparklywalls.livejournal.com]

Doesn't have to be fairy tale. He can be redeemed but still cause them problems. He just won't be the default bad guy anymore.

And you know, sometimes it is difficult to criticise. I used to be like it with a real historical figure. I grew up in a part of England that loved Richard III - I wouldn't even accept the possibility he did some of the bad stuff history accuses him of doing because I was so wrapped up in this romantic view. I'm not like that anymore but I'm just saying I understand what it's like to be unable to see the bad sides to a figure or character. I dare say plenty of people have had their opinions influenced by their emotional attachment to a thing, there's probably some literary critics who have done it. Seems pretty normal to me, at least you admit there might be some bias there.

[(Anonymous)]

He just won't be the default bad guy anymore.

That's just the thing, isn't it? Movie Loki is the kind of bad guy whose criminal acts stem from trauma and shit-poor coping mechanisms, the type that can, theoretically, be talked out of pulling the trigger if you just manage to push the right buttons in his brain. But I have little faith that will ever happen, because he IS the Designated Villain, and once you move a Hollywood villain away from that part, he's no longer any use to the storytellers. :(

[shocolate.livejournal.com]

What a surprise... I'm a lifelong Ricardian and your comment made me gasp.

Where did you grow up? I had to invent myself, in London.

[al28894.livejournal.com]

Yep, I'm so this except replace "Richard III" with "Prime Minister" and you get my problem. At least you admit that it's biased, OP.

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

+1 to all of this. I have to be unbiased with historical figures because it's my job, but I have a hard time putting my feelings away. We are just humans, after all.

[(Anonymous)]

I kind of love Loki too, but not, like, astral plane marrying kind of love. More like the "he was always the most interesting thing about Norse mythology" childhood crush evolving into "woah, hot, twisted dude with daddy issues" adulthood lust.

He's a fictional character, so it's not like he cares if you aren't seeing him for him and wobbiefying him or whatever. And, fic writing/squeeing is for fun, so it doesn't have to be serious business, better get his character exact kind of stuff.

It kind sounds like you are astral plane marrying kinda person, and I think that's a little weird. Distinguishing between fiction and reality is a good lifeskill. Fantasy love is fun, but I hope it doesn't eat away at your real life.

[ladyknightanka.livejournal.com]

"...he was always the most interesting thing about Norse mythology" childhood crush evolving into "woah, hot, twisted dude with daddy issues" adulthood lust.

This is me, too! I've studied a lot of mythology and have always found Loki to be not only the most interesting Norse god, but an all around interesting figure for world mythology in general. He just has so many dimensions and I like the character Loki for getting more people interested in Norse mythology, which is hardly as well known as its Greek or Roman counterparts.

I don't want to marry him in any plane, though. I just love mythology and fandom, so yay to Marvel for giving me a character (several, really) I can combine those interests for. :)

[(Anonymous)]

OP

Well ... Ofc he doesn't care, that's not the point. jw, what makes you think I'm an astral-plane-marrying kind of person? I ... really don't think I am?

[(Anonymous)]

I kind of love Loki too, but not, like, astral plane marrying kind of love. More like the "he was always the most interesting thing about Norse mythology" childhood crush evolving into "woah, hot, twisted dude with daddy issues" adulthood lust.

Hahaha this is me too <3

[hunterwithcause.livejournal.com]

Well, you're not alone in wanting a happy ending for Loki, OP. But I'm a total romantic sap, give me a slightly sympathetic character and I'll want nothing but a perfect fairytale ending for them. :P

That said, I don't think wanting him to be redeemed in Thor 2 is all that outlandish. It doesn't have to be redemption to the point where the Avengers will welcome him with open arms and tears of joy in their eyes, but it can be that he's a) not the villain anymore and b) somewhat of an antagonistic support character. You know, the kind of character that has verbal sparring contests with the snappy character of the team (Tony) and is seen as more of a hindrance but does, sometimes, give valuable help/information but doesn't go out with the team to fight the big bad himself. There's a TV Tropes-name for someone like that, I just can't think of it.

Mostly I can see him as being 'redeemed' to Thor, but the rest of the Avengers for example wouldn't trust him.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

Sounds fair to me. I don't want confetti and flowers, I just don't want Loki to be a bad guy anymore.

[intrigueing.livejournal.com]

The best thing to do in situations like this is discuss with people who are really unsympathetic to the character. That way, you have your view (which, I hope I'm right in assuming after seeing five quintillion instances of this in twenty different fandoms, contains a lot of "he did X evil thing, but...") which deeply analyzes the sympathetic side of him instead of jumping to conclusions, and you have someone else's harsher, clearer perspective that sees all the vileness that you missed. Seriously, open discussion = the cure to almost all fandom problems (not to mention almost all world problems).

[(Anonymous)]

You have already been lumped with the obsessive Loki fans. If you're writing a deep and complex character study about him where he is redeemed, this will probably be obvious to all readers.

[ooh-mrdarcy.livejournal.com]

I don't think he'll ever be completely redeemed, but Loki has been known to be an anti-hero/anti-villain sometimes.

[visiblemarket.livejournal.com]

I actually feel like it's kind of likely that Loki will be somewhat redeemed in Thor 2, because a) he's going to be in it and b) they've already had him as the villain in two movies, they're unlikely to do it again. So my guess is he'll be on Thor/Asgard's side (conditionally) for a while when they're fighting against whoever the new villain's going to be, be it ~for his own reasons or whatever, and you'll get some nice brotherly affection and "Remember when..." stuff, and then at the very end he'll betray them after all, but with implications that he kind of liked being back in the fold and feels kind of bad about it.

Also, I predict he'll try to kill Thor in some ridiculous way that's obviously not going to work, because that's just how Loki shows love.

[(Anonymous)]

My advice? Relax. It's a fictional character. You're allowed to indulge yourself. It's not like you'll go around automatically blowing up at any and all non-fans just because you're not 100% rational about your own fannishness. :P

[(Anonymous)]

Man, I think the OP just really, really, really wants to talk about her/his love of Loki. I have never seen so much "Hi! OP here!" splattered across the comments.

It's kind of cute and weird. [insert "Hello. Zuko here .gif.]

[(Anonymous)]

OP? I personally wouldn't worry about this. I've liked a lot of assholes in the years I've been in fandom and sometimes it is a lot of work worrying about whether you are interpreting them "correctly" and at the end of the day, that's all that these arguments boil down to. I'm not going to lie, I love woobie/redemption fics. I find them fun to read and they hit all my buttons. We all have them. This is a hobby. Characters like Loki aren't real and of course I don't excuse horrible shit irl, but fandom is sometimes about fulfilling something you wish to see in canon. If someone wants to write a Loki redemption arc fic, that can be wish fulfillment for some. It's not worse than anything else that gets written and liked, everyone has different tastes.

[mutantjules.livejournal.com]

you don't have to be super-biased to feel that a villain is sympathetic. You're fine =)

[(Anonymous)]

As long as it actually is deep and fair and doesn't exclude or brush off his actions as justifiable (or anything batshit like that), you're probably alright. Also hope there's none of this 'he just needs a hug' thing, because Loki is WAY past that point and frankly, I believe his issues are too deep for that ever to have been enough to 'fix' him.

And for the record, I don't believe Loki is ever going to change. Not really. He loves power and mischief and the thrill too much to ever stay completely 'clean' or 'good'. Someone else mentioned teaming up with Thor momentarily, and I can imagine a situation where he would do such a thing, but in the end, at least for me, I think him ever fully redeeming himself or being (and staying) on the side of good is a pipe-dream.

[velvet-mace.livejournal.com]

Sometimes it's just really, really enjoyable to uncritically like something.

[saiika-von-maou.livejournal.com]

Everyone has a little bias now and then. Recognizing that a bias may be present is good, though. That way you know what topics are sore spots for you. As for character studies, well, here's the fun thing about analyzing fictional works: You don't know 100% what the creator's intention is, no matter how many context clues you comb through. Everyone's mind works differently. Find a scene in Thor or in the Avengers that you think was undeniably significant to Loki's character. Depending on what it is, you could be right, and it's incredibly significant. But there's always, always a chance that the writer didn't find it as significant as you did. Since you don't know for sure how the writer expects Loki to be interpreted, you are free to interpret him in just about any way you wish.

But that's not satisfactory for people who enjoy character studies; I know, I'm the same way. So here's what I like to do with my biases: I find evidence. Moments, scenes that legitimately could be used to fuel my idea. I don't want to reach, so I have to look carefully. Make sure one piece of evidence that I find fits with the rest. It's a fun thing to do, and it's ultimately harmless. I mean, it's not like you're going to force everyone to accept your bias as canon, right? And you know you're not crazy, you just like to think. Thinking is good. So no worries. Have fun! :3

[(Anonymous)]

Comics!Loki is mostly villainous, but sometimes on Odin and Thor's side anyway when it suits his purposes, and he's in the process of being potentially redeemed as we speak in canon (possibly... he may end up like he was before, but for now, he's a good guy).

So it's not inconceivable that they'd go with a partial redemption or alliance in Thor 2. Loki's always kind of walking that line where you don't really know where he stands.

[(Anonymous)]

I can relate to this post so much. I have the same exact problem with Loki, and other characters I've liked in the past that are morally ambiguous. I try to see the other side to things, and I love just studying their character and their actions and motivations, but there is always this part of me that is desperate to prove their goodness or ability to be redeemed. I become almost blind with love for them, and I get really defensive in arguments.

Actually, when I first got into the Loki fandom, it was more just with close friends who were also invested, but at the same time they were really into Avengers Loki, where as I liked to focus more on Thor/pre-Thor Loki just because his character seemed more malleable and more easily swayed toward good. I desperately want to see redemption in him, but for a while it was hard to believe because of how he acted in Avengers, it was like there was no changing his mind. I'm beginning to have hope now from all this talk of upcoming movies, but yeah. I totally get where you're coming from on that, in fact, Snape was a favorite of mine, and I fought tooth and nail to prove the good in him too.