Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2012-06-15 06:50 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2012-06-15 06:50 pm
[ SECRET POST #1991 ]
⌈ Secret Post #1991 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]
15. [SPOILERS for Legend of Korra]
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16. [SPOILERS for Cabin in the Woods]
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17.[SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]
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18. [SPOILERS for Game of Thrones]
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19. [SPOILERS for ASOIAF]
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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]
20. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]
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21. [TRIGGER WARNING for stalking/harassment]
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22. [TRIGGER WARNING for mentions of suicide/self-harm]
[SPOILERS for Mad Men]
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #284.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - unreadable ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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This attitude always comes off as being from a kid who grew up at a time when everything was computers. There's a lot of history to the whole "Don't like fanfiction" thing, especially for the older authors. Times change, maybe they do, maybe they don't.
It's their decision. I can actually enjoy source material without needing a whole bunch of fic to make me happy.
But while, yeah, ficcers gonna fic, I really do hate the "it's free publicity!" excuse. It's so condescending (nevermind that most writers who don't want fic don't really need the publicity) and always sounds like you're trying to justify what you're doing. Don't. If you want to write fic, write the fic, but don't try to tack on some altruistic purpose of "helping" the author.
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(Anonymous) 2012-06-15 11:50 pm (UTC)(link)Fanwork does bring a lot of publicity. Maybe not every specific fic will, but I can say that I'm currently in three different fandoms that I never would have gotten into with fanworks, including fic and RP.
And "a time when everything was computers", really? Everything is computers now, and that's not going away. Authors don't get to dictate the world based on a long-gone past. That's a ridiculous excuse. Is it okay for old people to also be racist, since "times change" but "maybe they don't"?
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You missed my point. Everything is computers now, and the people who feel entitled to the author's approval of fanfic always come off as kids who have only ever grown up knowing that. Y'know, grown up with a constantly connected fandom, with fic and the like always available. Also, like they don't know the reason that a lot of older authors dislike fanfic (hint: it involves "The Old Days," zines, and a ridiculously drawn-out legal battle started by a fan against an author).
I didn't say fanwork doesn't bring publicity. I said when fans use that excuse to justify why an author should feel differently, they're being a little dishonest with themselves, and coming off as smarmy little pricks. They're not writing the fic to give the author publicity; they're writing the fic because they want to (or possibly because they're horny, depending on the fic).
It comes down to showing a little respect for the authors. I'm not even saying "don't write fic if the author doesn't like it." This is the internet, most (sane) authors aren't trying to remake the world into The Way It Was. They just don't. Like. Fanfiction. That is a legitimate way to feel, and it is every bit their right to dislike it. Hells, fanfiction already exists in a shady legal ground as it is, primarily getting by as a blind eye turned and all that.
My point is that people feel entitled to the author's approval. More than that, with lines like "it's publicity!" they sound as though they're expecting the author to be grateful about the epic slash fic they wrote. And that's...that's just messed up. The author isn't "stupid" for not liking what people do with his/her work. They can't stop it, but that doesn't mean that they have to feel like it's the best thing ever either.
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Transcript of the relevant bit: "They photoshop us in various I don't know where she got these weird positions. Various compromising positions and very proud of the fact and expected me to be as well. What up with you people?"
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(Anonymous) 2012-06-16 02:16 am (UTC)(link)wha
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(Anonymous) 2012-06-15 11:54 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
It doesn't help that people pull out the phrase "free publicity" in the creative world an awful lot, and nine times out of ten it's bogus flim-flam.
If the author is alienating their fans with outdated views, that's their prerogative. Some authors--most of the ones who dislike fanfic--genuinely do not care. And as I said, most of those are also well-known enough, and good enough writers that...they really don't have to care. So it just sounds like some kids whining: "But! But we'll get people to notice you!" Yes, you might. But the author doesn't really need you to do that, and they certainly don't have to like it.
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(Anonymous) 2012-06-16 12:56 am (UTC)(link)And to this I say...so? Just because an author chooses to do something doesn't mean that nobody should criticize them, particularly when that thing they're doing is ridiculous and nonsensical.
I don't think pointing out that fanworks are free publicity while calling an author out sounds like whining. I think it sounds like a bunch of people making a very legitimate point. Just because an author might not care doesn't make that point invalid. And just because you think it ~sounds whiny~ doesn't make it so.
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(Anonymous) 2012-06-16 01:31 am (UTC)(link)The whiny comes in with people who refuse to accept their authors wishes.
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The whiny comes in with people who refuse to accept their authors wishes.
Heck, like I said, IMHO it's not even about not accepting the author's wishes--write whatever fanfic you want, sure--it's just that they're still fussing because...because what? Because the author doesn't like it? I mean, I can find fanfic for pretty much any "forbidden" property with a few seconds at google, so it's not like the author's disapproval keeps it from happening, right? They're not being deprived of anything, not even their right to create fanfic, so... so what are they so mad about?
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(Anonymous) 2012-06-16 02:13 am (UTC)(link)And, from what I've seen, people for the most part do respect the author's wishes, in that they don't usually write fanfic for stuff that the author's have specifically said, "NO FANFIC." But just because they respect the author's wishes doesn't mean that they have to respect the author's reasons. And when people bring up the "free publicity," thing, they're basically stating just another reason why the author has bad reasons.
I just can't see how it's "whiny" or a person not accepting "their authors wishes" to bring up a valid point while arguing about the merits of fanfiction.
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(Anonymous) 2012-06-16 02:37 am (UTC)(link)Take GRRRM for example, on his lj post he clearly listed off the reason he does not want fanfic, and even answered comments to those who brought up valid points. He, in this example, is aware of those valid points but still chooses to not allow fanfic. For people to still complain about why they shouldn't be allowed to write fanfic afterwards only comes across as whiny because they are not getting their way.
But in the end why battle with them? Fanfic will exist whether they want it to or not.
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(Anonymous) 2012-06-16 02:55 am (UTC)(link)And I also don't see how people bringing up GRRM as a negative example in a discussion about the merits of fanfiction would be considered whining. And it seems silly to me to say that nobody can disagree with him, just because he's made up his mind. SURPRISE! Just because an author has a belief doesn't mean that people must agree with them. And just because someone disagrees with an author doesn't make them whiny.
(Plus, considering their have been authors who had previously disallowed fanfiction who then decided that fanfiction was okay, I can understand GRRM fans who would hope that he would grow out of his view.)
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(Anonymous) 2012-06-16 03:39 am (UTC)(link)"And I also don't see how people bringing up GRRM as a negative example in a discussion about the merits of fanfiction would be considered whining."
He's made it perfectly clear that he doesn't want fanfic. End of story. To keep trying to change his mind about it because they want fanfic "is whiny" because they don't like his reasons and they feel entitlement to that fanfic.
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(Anonymous) 2012-06-16 04:04 am (UTC)(link)Anyways, right now we're talking about two different things. I'm talking about people who bring up authors who don't like fanfiction amongst themselves, who then get called whiny for daring to disagree with an author (kind of like how we got started with this discussion in the first place). Whereas you are talking about people who continue to bring it up to the author, which is a completely different situation.
Honestly, I don't really have anything to say about the second part because I don't even know if that is a thing that people actually do (I don't read GRRM's site, because I don't care about him at all).
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(Anonymous) 2012-06-16 04:18 am (UTC)(link)It is what it is.
Talking to the author or discussing it with other people is still whining that you're not getting your way.
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(Anonymous) 2012-06-16 04:29 am (UTC)(link)Now, if you consider anyone who disagrees with you, or anyone even having a discussion about something you don't agree with to be "complaining peevishly," then you have a lot of learning to do.
Also, almost every discussion I've seen with people talking about the merits of fanfiction hasn't been at all complaining about how they weren't "getting their way." If that's all you've taken away from the discussions then, again, (once more with feeling) you have a lot of learning to do.
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(Anonymous) 2012-06-25 09:01 pm (UTC)(link)"I think it's a little silly to say that if someone thinks something then everyone else should just shut up about it if they disagree."
I don't find that silly at all when "someone" is the author of the work and "everybody else" is the fanbase. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the author does have a hell of a lot more rights to his/her work than you do. It's ridiculous to expect people to "just shut up" if they disagree with you, don't get me wrong, but the author gets the final say when it comes to their work. And that's the way it should be. So honestly it's kind of pointless to argue with them about it.
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(Anonymous) 2012-06-16 11:56 am (UTC)(link)lol you're so obvious.
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(Anonymous) 2012-06-16 12:37 am (UTC)(link)Also, yes, there are some reasons an author might be hesitant to allow fanfiction- I'm thinking something like when that one author couldn't write her own sequel because a fan sued her for copying a fanfic? There are ways to get around that, though. I remember something about the Girl Genius team saying that they encouraged fanfic existing, but explaining that they couldn't read it and didn't want people sending it to them, because of legal issues. Their butts are covered, and their fans are validated, everyone wins.
It's not that I think authors need to say they love fanfic, or whatever. But it feels like a really frivolous thing to try to ban. It goes both ways- if an author has the right to dislike fanfic and ask fans not to write it, the fans have the right to dislike an author's fanfic ban and choose not to support that author.
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This was really overblown and certainly no actual 'suing' occurred. See here on Fanlore.
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There are. It's also worth remembering that a lot of these writers (the ones really against fic) tend to be pretty old. As in the "set-in-their-ways" kind of old. Some of them adapt to technology and love it, some of them still use typewriters and actively fear the internet.
Fans can certainly chose not to support an author who espouses ideas that they find reprehensible. Or even just authors they don't like. I just think that refusing to read an author's work, not based on actual merit, but because that author said some mean things and "lives in the past" and all, is far more frivolous, and to use OP's word, "stupid" than an author, y'know, the one who worked and fretted and created something dear to them (and yes, I write fic, I know it can be "dear" too, but I really don't think that's on the same level), saying they don't like something and find it disrespectful.
I mean, seven hells, if these people only read authors who never insult fans, are they just gonna deprive themselves of Harlan Ellison?
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(Anonymous) 2012-06-16 04:20 am (UTC)(link)I guess this is where I'm coming from (and I don't mean this as SJ or as identity politics, just describing an experience that I've had in my life that was important): I am gay. I didn't know anybody else who I knew was gay, and there weren't many characters in original fiction that were gay and not based off stereotypes, or made out to be gay and only gay, with no room for the basic human stuff. Fanfic provided me with stories about queer people who were not originally intended to be queer, often who weren't really planned with any thought to sexual orientation at all, and thus the original form of that character is free from whatever idea the author has about queerness and just gets to be a person. Are there canon queer characters that just get to be people? Yes, but they're rarer, and what I needed was in short supply at the time when I needed it.
For that reason, there are several fandoms I was in at the time where the source material was not as dear to me as the fic. For some, I think the canon is kind of ridiculous now, but thinking of what the fandom meant to me, how it helped me come out to myself as a young teen, it's still dear to me, even if it's not what I'd currently be interested in. I think a lot of people assume fanfic is automatically meaningless- and that romantic/sexual fanfic is really automatically meaningless- but that isn't always the case.
And I don't know, I understand that some people are behind the times, I understand that people can be rude or whatever and still create something good, it's just. I can't really feel okay about someone deciding that they're the only ones who can make something meaningful out of the story. Especially because what might be meaningful to them and what might be meaningful to a fan could be totally different things, and if that fan needs some representation of herself that she isn't getting, saying "no! that is not what I meant and you aren't allowed to do it!" feels pretty cruel to me.