[ SECRET POST #2008 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2008 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 088 secrets from Secret Submission Post #287.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I can understand mild doubt about Merida's sexuality or people who bring in the argument how it's offensive to lesbians to assume we can never be feminine. However, there are a lot of straight special snowflakes on there with very offensive comments and making the post all about them. Spouting things like, "Oh so because I like sports that makes me a butch dyke. Guess I better tell my husband!" as if being associated with those ~dirty lesbians~ is the ultimate insult.

So yeah, side-eyeing a lot of people in that thread. Especially when a lot of people have an uproar about this but "speculate" Justine Beiber's sexuality all the time.

Furthermore, coming from someone who is gay (and more feminine) herself, I'd rather have kids exposed to a ambiguous lesbian character who fits the "butch stereotypes" than have no lesbians in media for kids at all. Kids don't think about the stereotypes when they're little; they're just happy with someone they can relate to. Also, it's not as if there aren't lesbians who are more "butch" out there. They exist too, and really aren't represented as much as lipstick lesbians are.

[stainless]

Yeah, that was kind of my reaction too. Like... I think assuming the character's a dyke is silly. But people reacting like "OH NO SHE ISN'TTTTTTTTTTT" strikes me as weird too.

(fwiw I have not seen it yet so if something makes it really likely she is in fact het ignore this)

[(Anonymous)]

and even worse are the people who go: "guys, it doesn't matter if she's a lesbian or not, we're all just people! ... BUT SHE TOTALLY ISN'T A LESBIAN. SERIOUSLY, SHE ISN'T!"

(nope, there's nothing that marks her out as straight so your comment is valid.)

[(Anonymous)]

this entire comment is awesome. but i kind of regretted reading through some of the ONTD comments for the same reason you said in your first paragraph: straight people thinking it's cute to be all sarcastic about ~defying stereotypes~ and not realising it's actually pretty damn offensive to turn the issue around and make it all about BUT STRAIGHT PEOPLE DO THIS TOO

[loki]

Yah totally. That really gets my wick.

[elialshadowpine]

Thiiiis.

I mean, speaking as a pan person, I'm pretty annoyed when "does not follow traditional gender roles = AUTOMATIC LESBIAN", because that's not the case for everyone and I really think it's harmful to actual GBL people. I know SO many lesbians who get coded as straight because their clothing choices and other things that are obvious fall in line with common feminine gender roles. (I deal with this myself to some degree because I have a male-bodied partner and like pretty skirts and stuff -- although part of that is simply that I have trouble finding pants that don't have stupidly tight waistbands, even the elastic ones, and that triggers the pain in my lower spine. I mean, granted, the moment I mention my girlfriend or ex-girlfriends, people get the message, but it doesn't help for people who don't have a chance to interact with me in depth.)

But I'm not really fond of stereotypes in general, and ideally I would love to see all types of women shown. There is a real problem with women in fiction being depicted as the more "masculine" female character being portrayed as "this is the way strong women should be" to the detriment of women who don't fall into that category, who often get derided for their femininity by the lead female character. It's like, if you're not "one of the boys", you don't count. (This is more of a problem in adult fiction, I think; it's part of why I have been reading YA a lot, because there seems to be more variance in female characters, although it still is a problem there. Just not quite prevalent to the point that I can guess within a couple pages that there is going to be animosity between the female characters.)

I am really pissed off at the straight women who are acting like the thought of people assuming they might be a lesbian is the most offensive thing evar. I'm not going to say I've never seen that assumption made, but it's nowhere near as common as they seem to think they are. And even if someone DID make that assumption, GET OVER IT. Argh.

[cloudsinvenice]

But I'm not really fond of stereotypes in general, and ideally I would love to see all types of women shown. There is a real problem with women in fiction being depicted as the more "masculine" female character being portrayed as "this is the way strong women should be" to the detriment of women who don't fall into that category, who often get derided for their femininity by the lead female character.

And I think the relative scarcity of female character-focused movies like this means that they have a lot of expectation on them to be all things to all viewers - like, we really need adventurous, tough, go-getting heroic women, so a protagonist needs to be that. And yet, we also need to affirm that being a "girlie" girl has positive qualities, so a nurturing/tender/empathic character is also needed. And we need to both love and hate any female character who is sharp-tongued and reckless with others' emotions - all at the same time. It's like whenever a female-centric story comes along we're all crossing our fingers for different outcomes and get really invested in them because we're worried it'll be a while before another film so thoroughly showcases a female character without shoehorning men in...

[ellie_oops]

I just read parts of that thread.

I can kinda sorta see the point some of them are trying to make, that stereotyping of any kind is damaging. They were trying to make a point that not all "tomboys" grow up to be lesbians. But it comes across as them saying "Gross! I'm not a lesbian." They tried to mean well, but really stuck their foot in their mouth.

But I also noticed that some of them are the ones who "OMG SQUEE" at slash or gay men. Like it's okay to say "Hey my OTP are men, so that means I'm not a homophobe." But my thoughts on some of the slash attitude should be a secret for another day.

[(Anonymous)]

This is a great comment :) I'm straight, so I can't entirely relate, but I was thinking pretty much this.