[ SECRET POST #2046 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2046 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 021 secrets from Secret Submission Post #292.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - spam secret ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

In a recent interview, GRRM was asked which of his characters he'd like to meet in real life. His response, "Dany-- cause she's hot."

The reaction to this by the audience and interviewer was charmed laughter. However, I admit to finding these comments a bit creepy myself. As we all know, Dany is still 15 years old (GRRM also confirmed in a recent interview-- not the same one that he said she was hot and he was dying to meet her--that she is still only 15, rather than 16.) GRRM is...what...63, or something? As noted, in the past, GRRM has specified that for his characters, he pictures ideas in his own head, rather than the people who play them. So he thinks a 15 year old girl is "hot" and is just dying to meet her?

I guess apparently most fans see no issue whatsoever with this confession, but I must admit to finding it...incredibly creepy. And after reading it, a whole lot of other issues regarding Dany and the way she is characterized came to light. Such as:

1. GRRM has (in interviews) called the wedding night between the then 13 year old Danerys and khal Drogo (in his early to mid 30's) as "the most romantic scene in the books."

2. From the beginning, GRRM really sexualizes the 13 year old Dany, and shows what (to me) comes across as a rather creepy fixation on her figure, particularly her breasts. Let's note the amount of mentions the 13 year old Danerys breasts get in A Game of Thrones alone, shall we?:
"her budding breasts"
"the tips of her breasts rubbed against her gown"
"her small breasts"
"her tender breasts. She liked to hold them. They were so beautiful.."
"the swell beneath her breasts."
"her swollen breasts"
"A small trickle of sweat trickled slowly between Dany's swollen breasts."
"she used her hands, her mouth, her breasts"
"her milk heavy breasts
"sweat ran in between her breasts"
"her breasts bare"

Here, Dany comes off as either a drooling old man imitating a 13 year old girl, or a 13 year old girl with a morbid fascination and obsession with her own breasts.

What creeps me out is that GRRM begins to sexualize her at 13, and continues to do so throughout the rest of the books.

In short, though its not a huge deal, does anyone else agree with me that a 63 year old man voicing his desire for a 15 year old in public strike anyone else as rather creepy?

[anonymouslyyours]

Breasts doesn't look like a word anymore.

"Her tender breasts. She liked to hold them. They were so beautiful," sounds like a line from a badfic.

[(Anonymous)]

Now imagine if those scenes were all about Barn's ass instead.

[darkmanifest]

I used to think everyone would agree with this, until the above thread came into existence. Lord give me strength.

[(Anonymous)]

Same, the thread above me is creepy and scary. I had just assumed people ignored the creepy for sake of the story.

I didn't realised so many people enjoyed the unwilling sexualisation of a 13 year old girl...

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, at what point did anyone go "yay, sexy 13 year olds *fap fap fap*"?

Aside from a few outbursts most of the discussion was pretty mature, I feel. Honestly, I didn't know very much about the series or the author, I'm just tired of people constantly shaming young female sexuality. Reading the above passage, it's clear that this guy is just being creepy and exploitative, which is shame because it'd be nice to have some positive, healthy representation of young female sexuality; this clearly isn't one. I just want to make it clear that I was defending teen sexuality, not this guy's shitty portrayal of it.

Lower in the thread that teenage-anon got very emotional, but I think that was because it was a sensitive issue for her; even then aside from a few crazy anons telling trying to convince her she's been raped, her dialogue with other users was pretty mature and calm.

[(Anonymous)]

Just speaking from curiosity, what point are you defending teenage sexuality? Because as I see it, teenagers are sexualized way too often in media and expected to be so in real life. Is it just the shaming that comes along with it if the teenagers actually are sexually active?

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, more or less, specifically teenager girls, because there's a big double-standard.
An um, I don't know what culture/where you live, but where I am it's the exact opposite. Where I am sex is a very, very bad thing. Especially if you're a teenager, the attitude here is basically "sex is evil, masturbation is evil". Where I am abstinence-only education is taught (and a lot of the time, there is no sex ed, because people are so disgusted and uncomfortable with sex itself). Teenagers are expected to NEVER have sex, or even masturbate (boys get a bit of leeway, but more about that below).

Even then, there is a huge double standard between genders. Teenage boys can get away with being sexual and nobody ever makes a big of deal of it. This is because, while the culture is overall anti-sex, male sexuality is lot more liberated; male sexual desire is very much acknowledged and seen as need.
On the other hand, female sexuality is non-existent. The common belief here is that woman have no sexual desire or even the ability to have an orgasm. There's also this huge obsession with virginity, which is I find rather creepy. Teenage girls, depending on their sexuality, are either adored by the community, or despised by it. Girls who are chaste and virginal, and put on this huge pedestal; the more sexless and 'pure' you are, the more praise and adoration you'll receive. Girls who have sex, or even masturbate, are seen as dirty or 'damaged goods'; they are shamed, and called sluts and whores.

Does that give you some insight into my perspective?

[(Anonymous)]

Wow, yikes yes I definitely see your perspective. Where I live, it's rather the opposite. I mean of course there are the very small sector at school that are extremely religious and adhere to all that abstinence only stuff. But most often while I was growing up I got bullied because I didn't have a boyfriend or didn't flirt and whatnot. Not that I think doing that stuff is bad at all, just wasn't for me. I mean, in 8th grade(uhh.. about age 13?) a few of my friends were talking about having sex with their boyfriends and they all came to unanimous decision that having anal is so much better because they don't have to worry about getting pregnant.

But there is so much wrong with THAT mindset(doing anal sex to avoid responsibility) thinking that I can't even begin to go into it. I think sexual education all over is completely fucked up and expectations and the view on sex really needs a change altogether. The more open people are with teaching their children about sex properly, the less we will have of these incorrect assumptions and horrible sitgmas for sexual activity.

[(Anonymous)]

I sorry you had to deal with that growing up, anon.

The key is balance really, if we could just have healthy, moderate attitudes toward sex (rather than flipping between two unhealthy extremes) I feel a lot these issues could be alleviated.
And I agree wholeheartedly about about proper sex education; it's something I fight for frequently.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh god, and considering who he asked to be cast for Dany...

I just feel very angry now about all this. I liked GoT a lot. I mean I knew it had it's faults, but to learn the author has these sorts of weird fascinations with such a young character is fucking creepy and I don't know if I am going to be able to continue to read the books at all anymore. Maybe I'll try the show when it comes back because how they aged her and that I don't have to read his gross wording. But yeah idk.

Also, "A small trickle of sweat trickled slowly between Dany's swollen breasts."
Really? Really?? He couldn't think of any other words to describe that... or rather why the hell was that even necessary?

[(Anonymous)]

who did he want to be cast as dany?

[(Anonymous)]

I doubt you'll even see this but it was Tamzin Merchant, http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1708957/

Who looks very young and barely has a personality. Thy even had her film the pilot I believe but I think the execs wanted someone older looking? I'm not sure, maybe it's just because she sucks at acting.

[(Anonymous)]

I hate how there are so many websites dissecting FSOG and mocking EL James' fetishes but not one for those books.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't forget what he said about people writing fanfics of his books.

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, that was my major issue with him...

...prior to reading this thread. Now I'm really creeped out.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm glad this is being passed around. I'm tired of people telling me I'm crazy for seeing the BLATANT sexualization of both Dany and Sansa and thinking that they (Sansa in particular) only exist because of his obvious hard-on for man-on-tween-girl sex. The "ZOMG IT'S HISTORICALLY ACCURATE THAT'S ALL" argument is exhausting. Show me a passage where GRRM goes on and on about Jon Snow's cold nipples rubbing against his shirt, then I'll buy that the sexualization of Dany and Sansa is there for "history" and not GRRM's penis.