fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2117 ]

[ SECRET POST #2117 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2117 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

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03.

[Slenderman/Cthulu]

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04.

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05.

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06.

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07. http://i.imgur.com/AAVIZ.jpg
[Bo Sinclair / House of Wax (2005); image contains possibly-triggery scars, no self-harm stuff in the text though]

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08.

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09.

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10.

[Wil Wheaton]

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11.

[Guardians of the Galaxy]

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12.

[The King of Fighters: KYO manga and game]

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13.

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

14. [SPOILERS for Star Trek Voyager: The Eternal Tide]

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15. [SPOILERS for Damages]

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16. [SPOILERS for Frankenweenie]

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17. [SPOILERS for Big Brother 14]

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18. [SPOILERS for Resident Evil 6]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

19. [WARNING for suicide]

[The Walking Dead]

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20. [WARNING for incest]

[A Night at the Roxbury]

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21. [WARNING for child abuse]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #302.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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... Okay, yes, no one can exclude you from fandom, duh.

But I have a few things to say.

1) I feel with these statements you've never been off LJ/DW. Because seriously? There are huge fandom spaces that are hugely male dominated. So I'm not even sure why this is a problem for you.

2) Holy shit you've met people who've said this seriously? Like, seriously seriously?

3) Are you a troll? Honest question because this secret sounds trollish.

Edited 2012-10-19 23:32 (UTC)

OP

1) I've been in fandom a very long time. LJ/DW didn't actually exist when I started. Everywhere I've been has had a gender bias, but never the way I've seen in the LJ/DW spaces. Whereas the "Tits or GTFO/get back in the kitchen" is certainly annoying and misogynistic, in my experience it's either been an overly-vocal and idiotic few, and a bunch of people unwilling to call them out (in the few cases THEY have been called out by other men it usually just served to feed the troll), or people joking without realizing it's not funny. I'm sure there are plenty of places that are all men and extremely horrid to women, but I've not seen them. Not the way I have with women running out men. /essay

2) Many places, including here, in the last couple of years. It took me several weeks to get up the courage to make this secret because I was afraid of getting flamed, so I can't actually point to any specific ones. One that sticks out in my head WAS on F!S, though, when a guy said he was unwilling to admit him gender for fear of getting run out, and a whole BUNCH of people in the replies told him not only should he not admit his gender, he should leave the fandom space because it was for women.

3) Not a troll. Just a frustrated, confused and angry anon.

1) I was with you until " but I've not seen them. Not the way I have with women running out men." You are a man so of course you aren't going to notice it. And because you haven't it sounds like you're dismissing it. Which is... unfortunate.

2) Here? ...I'm sorry. Let me take a moment to laugh at my monitor. You do realize a lot of the posters here are men too right? You sound like you're super sensitive to this or taking things in a really wrong way. Of course, I haven't seen the events you're citing so I could be wrong. Until then though I have to believe there's more to the story than "He was just a dude".

If it turns out I am being a judgmental asshole though, I will apologize.

Just what you said about the vocal minority of men being horrible, so too is it true for women. There is a vocal minority I've never seen but have heard people complain about. You can paint all women dominated spaces with the same brush because they exist in some of them.

But you feeling persecuted in fandom by women seems... far-fetched. Not impossible, but the level of it makes me raise an eyebrow.

3) So be it. I'll believe you for now.

...not a man.

Ah, you replied before I could edit and say "Also, I realize I'm being slightly hypocritical with number one and two. I'm working on it currently."

...not a man.

Really now? Well, aren't you lucky to have avoided such places then.

Edited 2012-10-20 02:12 (UTC)

I struggle with hypocrisy daily. I think most people do.

I'm a woman, fandom saved my life when I was 16, providing me with a place to hide from really cruddy things happening at home. Since then it has been a source of great joy and fun for me, although the things I've been interested have of course changed over time.

Fandom being so important to me means that I can't stand to see people telling other folks they should get the hell out for nothing more than the fact that they have a Y chromosome. If I'd come across the reverse, I imagine I would be an equally angry, confused, hurt anon.

But you just said you had come across the reverse, did you not? Yet, I do not see you so concerned about it.

Again, some trolls don't stand for every woman, nor every fandom space.

Perhaps it is my own hypocrisy showing, and I want to hold women to a higher standard. I honestly couldn't say for sure. I just know that for, whatever reason, the times I've seen women doing it bothered me a lot more than when I've seen the male version.

Or...actually, that's not right. Usually the men are such things as the aforementioned "Tits or GTFO", whereas the women are telling the men that they just aren't allowed to belong. Which means straight-forwardness apparently bugs me more than harassment and, in some cases, passive-aggressiveness.

Err.

I might officially suck as a human being. I still have great dislike for any woman who says men aren't allowed in a large fandom space that is not explicitly defined for a certain gender, though...

Both are forms of telling someone they don't belong. Both are wrong. The only difference is the form the attack takes and whether the victim is part of the majority or the minority.

You don't suck as a human being but I would say it is slightly misogynistic to hold women to a higher standard of conduct.

Truly, it is not about "men do this" and "women do this" but rather, "there are people who use gender to make other people feel unwanted or attacked". That is wrong. The gender problem is horrible for both sides. I would say it is worse on women because they are considered part of the minority but that does not mean men's problems are insignificant.

So you should be fighting for equality of all. You know, I have heard feminists make the argument that their fight is a two sided coin and everything they try to do to make themselves equal also helps alleviate problems faced by men. However, you are free to make up your own opinions on the matter.

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(Anonymous) - 2012-10-20 03:01 (UTC) - Expand

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forgottenjester - 2012-10-20 03:04 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2012-10-20 03:19 (UTC) - Expand

It is actually possible to be pretty active in various fandoms and avoid running into a lot of the super male dominated spaces where you find a lot of the more blatant misogyny. It all depends on what specific fandoms or type of fandoms you like to frequent, where you frequent them, and what types of fandom activity you engage in. So, I don't think the OP being a woman and not having to come into contact with those types of spaces and situations is that far out of left field or some indication of her being "lucky" or oblivious.

And yes, I am also a woman. There was really no need to get so snide with the OP over your mistakenly assuming she was male.

I didn't say it was impossible. Also, the OP said they had been to those spaces too and seen the misogyny. So I'm unsure why you're telling me this.

I wasn't being snide. I honestly think she's lucky. The OP and I aren't fighting as far as I'm aware. I thought we were having a nice debate.

I actually remember seeing a secret by a guy who felt barely-tolerated in female-dominated fandom spaces because he was a guy and not-tolerated in male-dominated fandom spaces because he, what was it, liked slash? Failed to adhere to macho rules of behavior? I don't know.

I don't remember if I read any of the comments -- this was shortly after I discovered the comm and I was wandering back in time and often just reading the secrets.

I am reasonably confident that the response in this particular community would be mixed-to-agreeing-with-main-point-of-secret. F!S doesn't have much patience with the idea of safe spaces. There will be people pointing out bad behavior of male-dominated communities, but probably no one saying it's appropriate to exclude all males.

Mind, if OP ran across even one such person who felt obliged to respond to every single dissenting opinion, I can see how it could create the impression the community agrees with that person.

Really? How... interesting, for lack of a better word. I have come across the exact opposite where men were worshiped if they liked slash, especially if they wrote it. Possibly because it was seen as more "legitimate" but I can only guess.

If those comments turned out to be fully in support of condemning men, as in "You don't belong there. Stop complaining." then I will have to make an apology to the OP. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

I agree with your assessment of F!S. I think we'd be more mild and agreeing. That isn't to say there wouldn't be dissenting opinions. I think the most we've ever come together on an opinion was to call someone who screwed over a needy kid on Christmas a douche. And even then I think there were two or three people defending the Secret's OP.

This is very true. If this is the case I hope they find more variety in their future fandom outings.

It was the male-dominated spaces which may have objected to the slash, if I'm remembering the thing correctly.

Oh. That puts a whole new spin on it. So it was men saying a gay man, or at least a man who liked slash, was unwelcome in their community? In essence, men oppressing men?

Two parts -- male-dominated fandom excluding a man for liking slash or somehow not meeting their standards of machoness, and female-dominated fandom barely-tolerating him because he's a guy.

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forgottenjester - 2012-10-20 07:21 (UTC) - Expand

Yes, because gay men are treated special in slash fandom, sometimes under the idea that what they write is inherently closer to reality.

You really need to try stepping out of your skewed perception before you tell people they're wrong. You're operating under a very narrow focus and basically telling people they're wrong when they don't share that focus.

Yes, because gay men are treated special in slash fandom, sometimes under the idea that what they write is inherently closer to reality.

There are many ways gay men are treated in fandom. Normally not nicely, as far as I can tell. What I said was a couple of anecdotal stories I have. So... I'm not really sure what you're saying here.

I haven't said anyone was wrong yet. Merely that I hadn't experienced that. I also accepted this person's story. My reaction was, "Wow, that happened. This is what happened to me. Let's compare and accept both as true."

What you are calling narrow mindedness is me learning and stepping out. So thanks for that.

I'm so narrow minded but you seem to be picking and choosing what I say and not actually reading my entire message. So again, maybe you should reread what I wrote?

Edited 2012-10-20 04:58 (UTC)

And here I thought you were cool. I must have your username confused with someone else.

But you feeling persecuted in fandom by women seems... far-fetched.

If OP isn't gay, I can absolutely see it. Because if you're gay, you apparently don't count as an evil, rapist man.

Wow, no need to be mean here, anon.

I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing. I was specifically referring to F!S. Here we're less likely to do that sort of thing.

It is also less common for men to be persecuted in fandom.

I didn't say it didn't happen. Just that I was hoping for more... specificity? Mostly because I hadn't heard of it before used in any serious manner. I had heard trolls and SJW use it but that's it.

If OP isn't gay, I can absolutely see it. Because if you're gay, you apparently don't count as an evil, rapist man.

I have no idea where this came from. So... do your non sequiturs mean something? Other than being offensive?

Edited 2012-10-20 05:26 (UTC)

Re 2): I'm pretty sure I remember that secret and the ensuing wank and I definitely remember a vocal minority telling the secret-maker that fandom is a female safe space and they should gtfo. I don't think it was the one linked here, either, cause I'm fairly sure it was on LJ.

The one link was originally on LJ. It was just transported over.

Oh, was it? I still don't think it was the one I remember, I'm sure it was longer ago than that.

Oh, okay.

Thank just kind of makes me more depressed.

I just skimmed the comment thread and I am sure I remember another wank along the same lines but tbh since I can't remember specifics it's possible I am imagining it. xD

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