[ SECRET POST #2125 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2125 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 124 secrets from Secret Submission Post #304.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat x 4 and counting. Bets? ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

Hi there FS! I have a bit of problem.

I've been dabbling in women's rights activism for a while, and I recently decided to join a feminist group on my campus. I'm only Asian there (I'm Indian fyi), there's a few black girls, but the rest are white.

Basically my issue is whenever the topic of Indian culture comes up (any type of Asian culture actually, but Indian is obviously the most sensitive to me), I feel very uncomfortable. I have no problem with recognizing there are gender issues in my culture, but the way these girls talk about it, they speak of it like the whole culture is a disease and we're a disgusting, savage people. I feel like there's a lot of racist and colonial undertones in what they're saying. I feel alienated and set apart from the rest of the group. They're not hostile to me, but the feel badly for me because I was 'unlucky' enough to be born into Indian culture. I find to be very condescending.

Any advice?

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

Why don't you tell them how it makes you feel in these exact words? You make an excellent point, and they aren't better for not understanding.

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

I've tried to communicate with them, perhaps less bluntly than I have put it here (it's a lot harder to speak so frankly when there's 20 eyes glaring your down). The overwhelming response seemed to be that I was just feeling that way because I'd been brainwashed by my culture (this was actually said in a very flowery, sugar-coated way of course; but that's what they ultimately getting at).

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

You could remind them that in America a bunch of old+white men are trying to force them to carry their rapist's baby, so they should shut their mouths?

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

Definitely speak with them about it, and it may even take a few times for them to understand your viewpoint and what they've been doing.

Honestly I don't think they have ill intentions, they just don't know any better, and I found when I was in early college it wasn't as hard to open minds as you might think as long as you were very polite (yet still a little forceful) about it. Some people just really don't know better.

Re: Feminism and Race

[dethtoll]

holy fucking shit it never ceases to make my teeth grind when i hear about how damn hypocritical SJWs are

Re: Feminism and Race

[ellie_oops]

Like the others have said, speak up more. Is there a "group leader"? Maybe you can talk to her about having a meeting where you have the floor so to speak. Set up a presentation about the misconceptions the women in your group seem to have. If these women are really about equality for all women, hopefully you speaking up will open their minds a little bit.

If these women continue to make you feel uncomfortable after attempts to open a discussion with them, it's probably best to walk away from them. Because you won't get anything out of the group if you don't feel like you belong or if these women won't see things from a different perspective.

Good Luck.

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

I'm half-Indian. My mother went to law school in India and got an LLM. She also gave tradition the middle finger and married a white foreigner (my dad). Her siblings were revolted that she didn't wait for her father to pick out a husband for her and stopped speaking to her. Her father, OTOH, shrugged and threw a beautiful semi-traditional wedding for her anyway. None of her siblings (my aunts and uncles on my mother's side) attended, and my mother's best friend was literally locked in her house by her parents to stop her attending the wedding. OTOH, my mother's beloved college professor and his wife, as well a lot of family friends, were perfectly fine with it and happy for her, and after a couple years the general opinion was no1curr.

Lots of gender issues? Fuck yes. Pervasive, strangling, monolithic, stifling, completely closed-down social regime of backwards gender ideas? Fuck no. Tell your friends there's a fuckload of variety and mixed opinions about it.

/going anon just in case someone sees this story and recognizes me

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

Hi, OP.
I'm a feminist. And nothing makes me more annoyed to see feminism being tangled up with ugly mindsets. Racism should have NO place in feminism.
I would suggest that you sit down and tell them what you've written up there. Use clear language. (Don't get too ragey.)
If they continue to make you feel alienated, you don't have to stay there. You shouldn't have to put up with it. You don't have an obligation to these people or their group.
Maybe there's some other groups in your area. Or maybe there's some feminist forums or groups online specifically for Asian cultures?

Re: Feminism and Race

[forgottenjester]

Yeah, I've noticed a lot of racism in feminist circles. For example, black women's experiences are given less weight and less of a voice. It's depressing. There have been a few people trying to combat this but it's still small.

I would say confront them on their racism. Maybe you can get some of the other girls on your side to back you up before you do the final confrontation. When you do this make sure you've got a lot of facts to back you up. Stay calm and logical. Hope they don't get defensive and angry.

I've never had to deal with type of scenario though. So take my advice with a grain of salt. Whatever you decide to do, good luck.

Re: Feminism and Race

[ill_omened]

Feminism is effectively by definition colonialist unfortunately.

Any escape from that quickly descends into an incoherent assembly of disparate ideologies.

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

so...women trying to achieve equality with men is ~by definition colonialist~ now? methinks your definition of colonialism is perhaps a wee bit out of sync with the rest of the world.

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

"Indian culture", bwuh? Thousands of years of history, upheavals, twenty-something current states... and people think it's a homogeneous society? Psh!

I think you need to speak up, because I'm pretty sure that not addressing the racist undertones of your group could very well undermine the strength of it. That is seriously problematic, and they need to check their own prejudices at the door.

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

Also, tell them they're jumping to conclusions about cultures that their not their own.

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt
On Indian culture; I know right! I phrase things that way for convenience- Since I'm living in the West right now. If I said I was Tamil, most people would ask "what country is that?". xD

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry to hear you're having this problem. At the same time...it's really not unexpected.

Perhaps you can give them some stuff to read. The problem of (white) feminists overlooking the significance of race as an additional axis of oppression for women of colour is far from a new one. bell hooks is one of those big names that has written about this issue. Elizabeth V. Spelman has written about the way that (white) feminists have tended to see race as an additional, supplementary issue, too. Lila Abu-Lughod has written about the way that white feminists sometimes see culture as something other people have (hence, other people get brainwashed but 'we' don't). There are others. This is an ongoing thing. Hell, the history of feminism can be usefully read alongside the history of colonialism (and has been done so. See, for example, Clare Midgley on women activists and the British Empire).

These are not problems that are isolated to feminism — but it is troublesome to see them amongst feminists who are ostensibly concerned with identities, rights and oppression.

...Also, don't expect them to change their tune even if they do read this stuff. There's been stuff written on that, too. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/22/957012/-White-Privilege-Diary-Series-1-White-Feminist-Privilege-in-Organizations

That's a wide scatter of things from America and the UK >.>. I hope it helps. Perhaps other people with a more comprehensive knowledge than mine could step up and offer some stuff.

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

Doesn't your culture still burn widows alive.

Have you considered focusing less on your feels and more on whether they're speaking sense or not.

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

BINDERS FULL OF WOMEN.

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

na

Uhhh, that shit was banned in the 1800s. It had a revival during the 1900s but was banned again by the federal government. There are still cases, but it's not exactly widespread and most people in India consider it barbaric. It's pretty ignorant to say "Doesn't your culture still burn widows alive" when it's not exactly a tradition that the majority of people there follow. You're kind of an asshole (or a troll).

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

Oh yes, of course we do, we sacrifice them to Kali after eating our monkey brains for dinner.

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

"White men are saving brown women from brown men."

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

Ugh, that sucks. Unfortunately, there are quite a few western feminists who fail to look outside of their own cultures or even try to question the assumption that western ideals (and, in a lot of cases, white, middle class western ideals) are the best way of life. You could maybe try pointing out that while there are issues in many Asian cultures with regards to sexism, there are just as many issues in whatever part of the world you're in--I'm assuming somewhere in North American or Western Europe, though I could be wrong? Or are there any Asian student groups on campus? Maybe you could get some other women from those groups to come and talk about those experiences and maybe dispel some of the other people in your group's seriously misguided ideas. You could also always look around for articles to share with the group or even professors on your campus who do work related to both gender and culture? These things might not change their minds, since people can be a bit dense sometimes, but they might at least get them thinking. Although it sucks that hearing you talk about your own experiences isn't enough to push them in that direction.

Barring all of the above, just be more blunt with them. Let them know everything you've told us here, and that them writing off your defense of your culture--a culture that they're all probably not very familiar with and really shouldn't be making assumptions or sweeping statements about--is belittling and close-minded and makes you seriously uncomfortable.

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

If speaking to the group again doesn't help, maybe some one-on-one conversations would be more effective? You could try to become friendly with a few of these women outside of the group. (Any of them live near you and could go to lunch with you in the same dining hall? Any taking one of your classes?) Bring up whatever the group has been doing recently and then find a way to segue into your concerns. Reiterate that you're culture (like all cultures) isn't without gender issues, but you feel frustrated when people make assumptions about it. Treat the woman you're talking to like an ally and not someone who needs to be told how to think (even if that's not how you really feel). Give her a chance to ask questions and bring up any concerns.

If all goes well, you might get her to understand your POV, and she will carry her new-found understanding to other women in the group.

Re: Feminism and Race

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think I have any advice that hasn't already been suggested by others here - I just wanted to say I'm sorry you're in this situation. You'll have to decide if your discomfort at the way they treat your culture outweighs any benefits you might feel you're gaining. It sounds to me like it doesn't... and since trying to address it with them hasn't worked, you might be better off just cutting your losses.

I agree with the previous commenters who suggested trying to talk to some of these people one-on-one. It's hard to disagree with a majority, or even a vocal minority. You might not be the only one feeling uncomfortable at how patronising these attitudes are, but others might not be willing to put themselves in the crossfire. They might be more open to discussion away from the group. Or we can hope, anyway.

If you do find a few people who're a bit more open (they don't have to necessarily agree completely with you - just be willing to listen and accept that they don't know everything and that certain attitudes are trampling perilously close to the idea of the "white man's burden" etc), you might even consider setting up another group? One that's more inclusive/friendly/etc? Just a thought. =D

(Out of curiosity - you mentioned you're Tamil? Did you grow up in Tamil Nadu, or overseas...? I'm Malayalee myself, but I grew up in Southeast Asia. Very much an Asian society, but with strong Western influence (primarily America and Britain), so I always feel like I'm constantly straddling the divide...)

Re: Feminism and Race

[unicornherds]

Oh wow that sounds really awful Anon and I'm sorry your feminist group on campus is seemingly full of jerks. Maybe try talking to them one on one? I don't know.