[ SECRET POST #2142 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2142 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Sorry it's late!

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 066 secrets from Secret Submission Post #306.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

16. http://i45.tinypic.com/v628hj.jpg

[forgottenjester]

I haven't seen this show in years but were these two really that bad? I don't remember them being that horrible... Did I block it all out or something?

[brightblueink]

Honestly, I don't think Pique is too bad, but Lilie DEFINITELY is. She doesn't start off too horrible, but...as the series goes on, particularly as it goes into the second season, she starts coming off as downright sadistic. For example, she hopes that Femio latches onto Ahiru and chases after her, not because she wants Ahiru to find someone she's happy with but because she knows that nobody (herself included--she has the same horrified reaction as the other girls when he's around)) find Femio attractive, and she thinks it'd be really entertaining to watch Ahiru having to deal with him. When Raven!Mytho tries to seduce Pique to get her heart, Lilie--knowing that Ahiru has a crush on him--spots him and Pique having a secret, obviously romantic-feeling meeting, drags Ahiru to come spy on them with her, and then "accidentally" makes Ahiru tumble right in front of them (by backing up several yards and giving Ahiru a running push) in the hopes of making Pique and Ahiru have a cat fight over Mytho. Later on in the same episode is the only time we ever see Lilie looking depressed--she thinks that Pique and Ahiru must've had a big fight over Mytho, but when they both say they didn't and wouldn't fight over the same boy because they're friends, she yelps in pain and hangs her head with a depressed expression.

In pretty much every episode she's like that to Ahiru and the other characters in some way. She "comforts" people with veiled insults (I'm too lazy to look up exact quotes right now but she tends to say stuff like "It's okay Duck, even though Mytho will never love you because of how awkward and clumsy you are I'll always be there to comfort you!"), hopes that the worst situation is what will happen for her entertainment, etc. she's basically a cute, blond little Drosselmeyer.

Pique's not nearly as bad in comparison, IMO. She does have a bad habit of teasing Ahiru, but she seems to genuinely want to support and help Ahiru too, and she's also the only one that ever calls out Lilie when she's clearly upsetting Ahiru.

[forgottenjester]

Huh, I guess I just interpreted that as "Vitriolic Best Buds" taken to insane levels due to the setting. I mean, they have a teacher that threatens them constantly with marriage. I guess that colored my view of their interactions.

If her behavior was the same in a more realistic setting I would probably side-eye it.

It also probably doesn't help that the type of humor she represents is something I find funny. In fact, such humor, like the backhanded compliments, is a common occurrence in a lot of my friendships. Then again, whenever such comments are made it's always known that we're joking. So maybe I take that assumption too far and apply it to fiction too much.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know what this is and I'm sure those girls are assholes, but their character designs are adorable imo

[brightblueink]

It's from a show called Princess Tutu, which is my favorite anime (so I'm biased and take this next bit with a grain of salt...) and IMO probably one of the best magical girl shows ever made. =Db It uses a lot of classical music in the soundtrack, lots of references to ballet and fairytales, and can get pretty meta at times, so...if you like fairytales or magical girl shows I heartily recommend it.

[greenvelvetcake]

To make the main character more palatable, I guess? Easier to make the main character likable by looking better in comparison to bad sidekicks than to create interesting main characters.

I'll never understand why physical violence is played off as "cute" in a lot of anime. Just because the instigator is a tiny little girl doesn't mean it's harmless or sweet. That shit's not healthy, yo.

Especially when people see it in the show, think, "oh, it'll be cute if I do that in real life!" That happens. No it's not cute.

[erinptah]

In a lot of shows, the sidekicks have to be one-note gag caricatures. The writers don't want to portray the heroine as friendless, but the important relationships on the show are heroine/rival, heroine/love interest, and so on. And it's easy to do a funny-mean or funny-obsessive gag character than a funny-nice gag character, especially if "nice" is already one of the heroine's defining characteristics.

For sidekicks who are non-obnoxious, and often better-developed as well, check out Miyako (Kamikaze Kaitou Jeanne), Seira (Kaitou Saint Tail), Naru (Sailor Moon, though she fades in importance in the later seasons), Tomoyo (Cardcaptor Sakura), Hitomi (Madoka Magica), and Wakaba (Revolutionary Girl Utena).

[(Anonymous)]

I feel sorry for Hitomi from PMMM -- the poor girl gets so much hate, but she was a surprisingly mature character who just didn't know about her friends' secret lives.

I'm worried about what Gen Urobuchi plans to do with her in the third movie, though...

[illiadandoddity]

It's because in most shojo, the heroine herself is incredibly annoying, so she needs even worse people around to make her look better. It became a trope that carries over into other stories, even ones without a supremely obnoxious heroine?

[silverau]

No idea what this is, but I hate this concept too. I don't like when show writers don't write good friendships for the main character and instead make their longtime friends either jerks, or completely bland.

[(Anonymous)]

lol I liked Pique hahaha

princess tutu is a great show itself, I was never bothered by these girls but yeah ~ this stereotype happens.. a lot...
i wonder why

[brightblueink]

I don't think Pique is that bad. She's pushy and teases Ahiru too much sometimes, yeah, but she does seem to genuinely want Ahiru to do well and does her best to help out.

LILIE, on the other hand, is definitely horrible. I recently showed this show to my friends of mine and pretty much every time she was on screen one of my friends would point at her and say "She's THE DEVIL." And although I like her as comic relief, I definitely don't disagree. She's downright evil to duck sometimes.

As for why anime does this (and I don't think it's just shoujo, those characters often show up in shounen series like Neon Genesis Evangelion, too) I think it's two things.

One, surrounding the protagonist with goofy, flawed characters makes them look better by comparison. (This is particularly the case in harem shows and visual novels--IE, Tomoyo in Clannad might be sarcastic, blunt, and a distant son to his only living parent, but at least he doesn't seem like a loser when you compare him to Sunohara, who refuses to believe one of the other characters is biologically female because she can kick his ass and harasses her constantly in an attempt to prove she's really a crossdressing guy.)

Two, they're supposed to be comic relief. YMMV on how well these actually work out, but I think we're supposed to find Pique and Lilie's treatment of Ahiru as funny. The "normal friend" characters are often kinda slapstick-y in general, or prone to wild dramatics (like Hitomi from Madoka Magica freaking out and thinking Madoka and Sayaka are in a relationship when she figures out they have a shared secret). So...yeah.

I definitely sympathize with people that find those characters annoying, so I get where you're coming from. I sometimes find them funny, and sometimes I don't.

[bored_bitch]

Never seen this particular anime, but this same thing did bother me about the Sailor Moon dub.
The way the senshi talked about Serena sometimes, you'd think they were those stuck up "queen bee" types in generic high school drama. The ones usually played off as villains.

Thankfully, the original Japanese didn't follow this formula. And they toned it way down after the R chapter.
I guess the DiC just think having disrespectful asshole friends is normal / healthy in American society or something.

[(Anonymous)]

Having went through some awful "friendships" as a girl, which I see glimpses of in these shows, it's easy for me to see why these characters don't dump their friends. I stuck with mine for a couple reasons. First, because I believed if my friends weren't nice to me, it was because of something I was doing wrong and I wanted to become the kind of person they'd be nice to. Second, I don't think I was aware that I could choose to end a friendship with someone I'd keep seeing every day anyway (at school, daycare, or around the neighborhood). Friends were designated, and once you had them, you couldn't just decide not to be friends.

[(Anonymous)]

Because it's pretty realistic? Most shoujo takes place in high school, and high school girls are catty little shits to each other.

[silverau]

So sick of this stereotype. None of my friends with like that in high school. I'm not denying that some high school girls act like the antagonists of Disney sitcoms, but MOST don't.

There was a lot more passive-aggressive bullying in middle school, but even then friend in-fighting was less common than different cliques picking on each other.

[cloud_riven]

I have not noticed this. Maybe I'm just missing it, or I'm watching all the wrong anime. I want to watch Mean Girls animes :(

[i_paint_the_sky]

God I hate those two. There's a reason that by the time the show is really going and good that they are not around all that much!

I can't say I can think of any other shows that have such awful best friends, aside from ones where the "best friend" is meant to become the antagonist (and even some of them aren't as bad as Pique and Lilie!).

[(Anonymous)]

I'm surprised at the opinions of Pique and Lilie in the comments. I thought they were fun characters because their meanness crossed the line twice so much, it was hard to take seriously. I thought it was probably another element to the fairy tale quality of the town. In our world acting the way they do would be unacceptable, absurd (like a cat teaching ballet and threatening to marry students as punishment), but as part of the story they're in, it's silly and harmless.

[(Anonymous)]

Soooo I'm guessing you've never had that one friend who is an asshole but you like them anyway? Or that one friend who you're close enough with that you can trade insults and mockery as expressions of affection?

[(Anonymous)]

1) If they're an asshole, I don't like them.

2) What these two characters did in the show (though to be fair, it was more the blonde one than the other girl) went WAY BEYOND trading insults and mockery and straight into outright sabotage.

[les_lenne]

Yeah, they're like Rei from the Sailor Moon anime except to the extreme and thankfully actually hilarious instead of painful to watch. But. It's not just shoujo. Look at Digimon. They gave the worst "friend" ever the crest of friendship. To this day I wonder if it's a sick inside joke of the writers.

But those mean characters are often fan favorites because fans usually despise main characters for whatever reason. So I guess that's why it's so prevalent.

[brightblueink]

Wait...I'm a little lost, what makes Yamato/Matt a particularly bad friend or a mean character?

[otakugal15]

I don't remember the pink haired one being bad. The blonde DID like it when ever Ahiru was distressed though.