fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2147 ]

[ SECRET POST #2147 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2147 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07.

__________________________________________________

08.

__________________________________________________

09.

__________________________________________________

10.

__________________________________________________

11.

__________________________________________________

12.

__________________________________________________

13.

__________________________________________________

14.

__________________________________________________

15.

__________________________________________________

16.

__________________________________________________

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #307.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - vader trolls and probably more later ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

SMeyer may be a puritan herself, but the whole outrage reeks of puritanism itself. Tons and tons of misogynist material around, but all of a sudden when it's something for young girls and about a young girl wanting someone, it's unacceptable. Making sure that all the silly little girls like the proper things, even when it's fiction. But it's all for their own good!

It's not like a young girl wrote the books.

No, but I don't really give a damn about Meyer. I'm more annoyed by the fact that girls (hell, even grown women for that matter) are continually vilified and sneered at for, horror of horrors, liking something. Or just being told that they're wrong and that they need to be protected from a book. As if noone in the world had ever liked something shit and problematic.

People can be idiots at all ages and being female doesn't mean you're exempt from people pointing out that you have shitty taste. And the main criticism is of the book, not of its young fans - it's generally accepted that kids often like crappy things.

Not really, kids can have much better tastes than adults. You either never meet a child like that or the CF has brainwashed you.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-11-19 17:30 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-11-19 17:43 (UTC) - Expand

Liking something that's sit and problematic is fine if you're aware that it's problematic (totally not a problem to be blissfully unaware that something is shitty because that's objective anyway).

It's just a little frightening to see a lot of girls saying that they want a guy like Edward when so much of what he does is really, really, really scary and unhealthy.

Most kids who don't frequent social justice spaces on the internet don't even know what "problematic" means. I read loooots of books that were more problematic than Twilight in my teens (ever hear of the Black Jewels Trilogy? Good Lord, those books) for reasons that I did not pick up on at the time. I bet you know lots of perfectly healthy, functioning adults who did, too. It's not a new thing that began with and because of Twilight.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-11-19 04:14 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-11-20 20:33 (UTC) - Expand

(reply from suspended user)

People do complain about other misogynistic material, it's just that Twilight is so popular that a lot of people have read it, so a lot of people are in a position to critic it.

Also, it's not a problem that a girl wants someone (there are a lot of books where the woman wants someone, maybe not as many as were she's pursued, but Twilight isn't the only one or something) - it's that the books show the girl wanting guys who treat her like an object and act in very, very sketchy ways towards her.

People do complain about other misogynistic material, it's just that Twilight is so popular that a lot of people have read it, so a lot of people are in a position to critic it.

What about all the hugely successful films were women are just left in the sidelines and/or casually objectivied? Oh, sure, people mention it now and then. But still, it's never the fan(boy)s' fault for going to see it in their droves, and no-one would dream of explaining to them that it's wrong.
With Twilight though, it's completely OK to mock the fans and consider them complete morons.

If you think fanboys aren't mercilessly mocked for other things, you aren't paying attention.

The problem is that people aren't critical enough about stuff written for a male audience.

The solution isn't to stop people from being critical about stuff written for women.

And as a general rule you should critique a work, not the fans.

(no subject)

philstar22 - 2012-11-19 13:03 (UTC) - Expand

With Twilight though, it's completely OK to mock the fans and consider them complete morons.

When they ACT like complete morons they DESERVE to be mocked.

Considering that the 'proper things' in this context include not being in a controlling, abusive, stalkery relationship, IDK what your problem is.

Considering that the one thing all the Twilight-bashing has taught me is that the real problem about controlling, abusive, stalkery relationships isn't men being controlling, abusive and stalkery, but actually young women reading about it... yes, I have a problem with that.

Right, because Edward never ever gets bashed for being an abusive, stalkery, controlling douchewipe.

Thank you! I've never read Twilight and doubt I would like it if I did, but that's one the things that annoy me the me the most about the haters. The whole attitude that girls and women need to be protected from these dangerous books and are too stupid to tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

No one ever says "needs to be protected from" when talking about those books. Mainly, the words used are "full of shit."

Well... the way I see it (as a youngish female sub) is this:

Twilight's not "dangerous" or anything because ultimately it's fantasy. Edward is a vampire; you will never meet an Edward. You may meet a stalker-ish, abusive, controlling asshole, but you will never meet an Edward.

Fifty Shades, on the other hand, is "dangerous" exactly because it doesn't draw a clear line between fantasy and reality. Christian is a stalkerish, abusive, controlling asshole who lures in an innocent woman under the guise of BDSM and does lots of sketchy, borderline rape-y things to her. Unfortunately, you may meet plenty of Christians in real life if you don't know what you're doing. But largely, the reason 50 Shades is so problematic is that for a lot of people, it is their first contact with BDSM, or something that looks like it (I've said before that 50 Shades is a rape roleplay without the framing device of an actual roleplay), and so they can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality there. They aren't stupid by any means, neither women nor men, but BDSM, like a whip or a sub or a relationship of any sort, isn't a toy, and 50 Shades treats all four as such.

Great description of why the '50 Shades' craze is making me a tad concerned. We need to get the word out.

Hey, I think these books are problematic because they glamorize abuse - which can affect both men and women. But really, they are more conserning because they reflect the views that people already have. (If people didn't already have these views the books wouldn't be so popular.)

Also, acting like people aren't influenced by the media they consume is silly. Media is both influences and is influenced by the culture surrounding it.

Violent video games are criticized because the assumed audience -- young boys and men -- apparently need to be protected from them and are too stupid to tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

I don't think it's a matter of sexism, just a matter of awful taste.

Again, it's not that they're stupid - it's that they, for the most part, have no other background with either healthy relationships (if we're talking teens and Twlight) or BDSM (if we're talking... well, quite a lot of people and 50 Shades). Following your analogy, it's as though someone's first exposure to New York was Grand Theft Auto. It is ridiculous? Yeah. Is it wrong? Yeah, and anyone who knows anything else about New York could tell you that. And obviously more people have access to information about New York, and it's not like New York is taboo. But it's basically what's happening, especially with 50 Shades.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-11-19 07:47 (UTC) - Expand

What about the people who ask Robert Pattinson to bite them, or are convinced they are the true Bella and Edward? Looks like this fandom is pretty fill of "people too stupid to tell the difference between fantasy and reality" as is.

At some point, this shit is going to land a woman or young girl in intensive care or on a morgue slab. It's not a matter of if, but when, since this whole "glamourisation of abuse under the guise of fiction" phenomenon doesn't seem to be losing steam any time soon.

If anyone reading this ever finds their Christian or an Edward, do yourself and the world a favour and CALL THE COPS and file a restraining order/ injunction. Stalking and obsessive behaviour isn't cute, isn't sweet, it can and does destroy lives.

Jesus fucking christ, is that SO HARD for all of you fucking domestic abuse apologists to comprehend?!

What do you think the "proper things" are? The "Twilight" series aren't just centered on "a young girl wanting someone," they're centered on a stupid teenager wanting to enter an bizarre relationship with an idealized stalker.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only