[ SECRET POST #2164 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2164 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 044 secrets from Secret Submission Post #309.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I have a hint for you.

STOP TAKING IT PERSONALLY.

If you are not a member of the LGBT* community then of course no one's going to want to reward you for being supportive. It's human decency. And so long as you show it then no one will personally regard you as the human being who ruins everything in their generalised rants.

'UGH straight allies' or 'UGH cishets' doesn't always mean you. But you sound like you want cookies and read yourself into their highly generalised rants like they've personally offended YOU and fuck their problems. So maybe they probably do mean you at this point idk.

Think about why people get annoyed that you want praise for not being an asshole though. It's goddamn annoying. Be sincere in understanding that the LGBT* community has problems you don't. Support them but don't expect personal recognition. No one's sticking your name up on the 'RECOGNISED NON-ASSHOLE CISHETS' plaque.

[(Anonymous)]

i fucking hate this double standard. it's a-ok to generalise white, cis and het people but god have mercy on your soul if you generalise pocs, trans or gay people.

neither is ok. at all. both are equally not ok things to do. generalising at all is not ok.

[(Anonymous)]

I severely doubt that when people moan about straight allies that they genuinely believe every single one has the annoying habit of turning gay rights into 'their thing'. If they do then I agree that it's horrible and they're being far too cynical. On the whole though why do people need to add an ammendment to a rant so they don't accidentally offend someone who already knows they didn't do what this person is annoyed about?

[(Anonymous)]

on the whole, you can rationalise it however you want, generalising is still not ok.

[(Anonymous)]

Posted some explanation on a few more comments downstream. I was trying to argue against something only semi-relevant and I don't think we were talking about the same thing. Sorry I gave the impression that saying extreme things about /all/ straight people etc was totally alright ;;;

[insanenoodlyguy]

You and yours don't say "those people" though. You say "white people. Straight people. Cis people." That's a large group and you know damn well you'd turn it around if somebody said "gay people, trans people" and the same sort of thing.

You want to do it, be ready for the world to finally accept you just like everybody else: An ignorant asshole that doesn't think about the words coming out of their mouth.

[(Anonymous)]

Except that they DO generalize non-white/cis/het whatever people. But for some reason it's okay for them to do so.

[(Anonymous)]

Umm yea...that's just what we need. Less straight allies.Let's make them all feel like a punching bag, and drive away any new ones that want to help.

Yep, yep...we can do this all on our on.

Nope.

[insanenoodlyguy]

You first. What? You can't? Hmmm. It's almost like your expectations of empathy as a human being should be applied more liberally.

And that's the real fucking key. Empathy. Yeah, a middle class wasp male won't have the same problems as you. And there are many situations where he has advantages. More often then not he got to benefit from that.

That doesn't make his problems inherently less then yours. So when "boo hoo, white tears" is used to respond to somebody who's struggling with depression, I stop caring if that person is offended by anything. For all you know their mom has fucking cancer. But you shouldn't wait to find that out to be a decent person. You should be a decent person because that's what we ought to be striving for as a collective race. Empathy doesn't end with your own little group of those like you, or even those who catch the same shit. Pain is not exclusive.

It's not about recognizing somebody who's not an asshole, it's about people looking for assholes in every potential asshole and counter-punching or out and out bulling before the other person ever even had a bad thought.

But I can see why you are frustrated. Most people get mad when your called out on your bullshit. Especially when they say the same things about you thought about people who have given you shit.

[(Anonymous)]

+100

[(Anonymous)]

Noodly, you're really on the ball tonight. :)

+ millions

[stainless]

So when "boo hoo, white tears" is used to respond to somebody who's struggling with depression, I stop caring if that person is offended by anything.

Oh my God, some ACTUAL SENSE.

[(Anonymous)]

...I love you.

[(Anonymous)]

Well in the first place I was more annoyed that the OP was looking for some sign of positive reinforcement from gay people and I've really not changed my stance on that. That's really not someone anyone should feel entitled to. I got angry thinking they were one of those people who always derails discussions about problems some group has created by calling out 'but I'M not like that'. I posted a bit too fast and later I realised that they were more upset by blanket hate statements than by not being recognised as a nice person.

Being bombarded with messages like 'die cis scum' and 'I wish straight people would just die' and feeling frustrated by them is something I can understand and agree with. The people with the issue there are the posters who spew all their hate into all-encompassing insults. I ranted on generalisations when I was still in the line of thinking it was a bit like talking about how certain feminist groups are awful and someone feeling the need to point out THEY don't do x, y, z as a feminist as if they found an insult towards them in something that wasn't really about them in the first place. Feeling insulted because someone dismissed your entire sexuality is different, I accept that.

So I'm not really sure how you got to me apparently feeling like not a single one of OP's problems is real? Of course OP can have problems, I just don't think not receiving some form of approval from the gay community is a problem. Feeling frustrated because you feel like people hate you for what you are before they know you? Yeah that's a problem and I can understand it'd get a person down. Do they really need anyone's approval though? Wanting gay people to recognise that they're alright rather than realising the posters are out of line won't go anywhere but I get what they mean now. Spewing hate statements like that isn't something I can condone and I'm sorry I gave that impression.

[fuchsiascreams]

I don't think they're looking for recognition from gay people, I think they're looking for a place where they can feel okay being straight, white, and cis without being insulted, like those things are somehow bad or wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a gay woman and I fucking hate it when "oppressed" groups make generalized statements about the "majority" group. It's fucking stupid. "Ugh, I hate men!" or "ugh, white people!" or "straight people are evil" or, apparently, "die cis scum".... This is fucking absurd rhetoric and anyone who uses it deserves to be slapped.

Let's be real. Generalizing ANY group is not okay, and if we don't want people to generalize us, then maybe we should work on not doing it, too. It's embarrassing, extremist, and guess what? it doesn't help anything, it does nothing at best and even makes it worse.

[(Anonymous)]

So I'm the OP of the first comment and I've realised since then that I've been talking about totally different kind of statements.

What I disagree with is feeling personally offended when there's a reason to talk about a group. Right now there's a lot of frustration about people shifting conversation over to how important allies are instead of gay and trans* rights. In that kind of context when someone says 'Ugh just stop' and someone straight gets offended and responds 'But I'm not like that!!' I think that's more of a selfish reaction. People do appreciate when you act properly and feeling like someone's trying to insult you in that case really makes no sense to me.

Being like 'I wish straight people would just die' may not have the same background as saying the same about gay people (mostly because people are still trying that?) but it's stupid to condone.

Sorry I presumed completely the wrong thing here! Those kind of gross blanket statements really are bad even if a person is frustrated.

[(Anonymous)]

The problem is, words mean things. If I say, "I hate [X group]," or "[X group] suck," then I am, in fact, talking about ALL MEMBERS of X group. That's why I am careful to say what I mean. I am willing to say, "Republicans are either horrible people or so politically ignorant they have no business in a voting booth," because that is a statement I am comfortable making about every single Republican there is. I am not willing to say, "Men suck," because I don't feel that way about every single man there is, and I don't expect the men I don't mean to magically know that they're the unstated exception. Instead, I'd say, "Men who do [X] suck," or "Misogynists suck." Because that's what I mean.

People with privilege who support the causes of marginalized group don't deserve "special personal recognition," but they do deserve not to have verbal abuse thrown at them when they're not the ones who have done the thing that I'm angry about.

That doesn't mean that allies should derail discussions with "BUT I'M DIFFERENT," but I think it does mean that people should direct their very legitimate anger only at the people who have done things that upset them, rather than including in their vitriol the people who disapprove of those things but bear a demographic resemblance to those people.

[(Anonymous)]

Said it above. I've got it now. What I was meaning was more was when someone says "[X] group is doing [Y] horrible thing" and someone goes out of their way to state that they're not like that. Turning the issue into something about yourself doesn't help the people you're supposed to be helping out in that case. That's what I was finding selfish.

Blanket statements like "die cis scum" though, I can see why people say it but I agree that it's not excusable.

Still side-eying the OP for saying that they'll never do anything to make the gay community give them a thumbs up because clearly they're not going to get it but I'm sorry I gave the impression I was defended the literal hate rants ;;; You pretty much said it all.

[(Anonymous)]

But why assume that they OP 'may' have had ill intent. What if they are a good person, and they are just genuinely frustrated?

I might be a 'straight gay' but I never understood that kinda paranoia-ish that no straight person can be trusted with words, or intent. They don't all want to get us...so many of them are good...and they want to help.

[fuchsiascreams]

Should they expect personal recognition for not being an asshole? No. But should they expect NOT to be bullied just for being cis, straight, and white? Absolutely.