fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2177 ]

[ SECRET POST #2177 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2177 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 058 secrets from Secret Submission Post #311.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

It seems like some people think I'm imagining or exaggerating the things I've seen.

A handful of examples:

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/243903-The-main-reason-for-the-CT-shooting-IMO

--Anyone who commits a crime like this cannot be sane. The problem is, with our laws today, someone who is mentally cannot be forced to get help UNTIL the hurt someone. That, to me, is ridiculous. I have been reading countless comments and article from parents who endure similar issues with thier children. But because someone, somewhere thought it was cruel and inhuman to lock these people up, they don't do it anymore.

--The "Seriously mental ill" need to be locked up. I have had two people who were "seriously mentally ill" try to kill me. One came darn near close to succeeding. When our nation realizes that these people are a danger to society and locks them up and keeps them locked up, we will be much closer to being "safe."

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/concealed-carry-discussion/32049-newtown-conn-shooting-gun-control-broken-moral-compus.html

--Those who were already known, on drugs to treat them and still you did nothing to keep them from killing. Do your job, if that mean locking them up to keep children safe so be it.

--And its the left who refuse to do anything about bad people, sick people who need to be locked up or otherwise controlled.

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/concealed-carry-discussion/32049-newtown-conn-shooting-gun-control-broken-moral-compus.html

--That's why they need to be locked up. The movement to do away with the insane asylums has cost society.

http://www.lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=715793

--Our former mental health system was broken up because liberal groups said that people should not be locked up if they have not committed a crime. There was talk about having them, instead, in homes in normal communities where they could get treatment but be free to go and come as they please. You want that next door to your house? It never happened. A lot of this is because of the stigma attached to any brain behavior problems. Once you understand when the brain is haywire, you know that they must be confined for our safety and theirs. They are suicidal. Of course you can take guns away from the law-abiding people, and carry all your knives in a container wherever you go. And take karate lessons to protect yourself from your full-grown adult son. Lock-down mental facilities are the only way to go, but gun control is easier and cheaper.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/12/no-mass-shootings-are-not-on-the-increase/

--There needs to be a Megan’s Law for diagnosed severe forms of disorders of anxiety, paranoia, sociopathy and schizophrenia who should be known only to the local police. There should be a periodic review of their living circumstance and verification they don’t have access to guns. There should be a zero tolerance rule for these people found with any gun or explosive, they should be locked up in the nut hatch for life unless medical science can prove to society they can be made safe. Unsupervised medicating is unacceptable since they could decide not to take their medicine as often is the case.

-- It’s the mentally ill who need to be locked up not the guns because sane people don’t do these monstrous things.

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/far-left-groups-defeated-connecticut-mental-health-protection-laws-just-months-before-shooting/question-3393141/?page=1&postId=100005323#post_100005323

--All the "crazies" and thats what they are; crazy, not sick as though they will get beter over time. Lock them up en masse and put em to work in prison factories for the rest of their demented sorry lives and keep us normal citizens safe from their deranged and demented illusions and "illnesses".

--Before 1975, this guy would have been in a mental institution. But the left fought and won to have them released. So you have what you wanted

http://www.nctimes.com/news/opinion/letters/letters-connecticut-shooting/article_bdede073-d5b4-5a0b-b705-29958e705065.html

--I’m not an NRA member, but the obvious intelligent solution is to round up all the lunatics, not to round up all the guns. We as a society have become far too liberal in defining lunacy, and too politically correct to assert that lunatics need to be locked up, because they have “their rights” and the ACLU would object and sue. We need to have more mental hospitals filled with our nation’s crazies.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/16/latest-updates-connecticut-school-shooting/comment-page-28/

--My vote is to open State Hospitals again. Obviously people that don't fit the "norm" don't belong in society and are too much for their families to handle. There has to be a safe place for these people to be committed.

--Why take guns away from the people who didn't do the shootings. Take the mentally ill and put them somewhere safe...for them...and for us.

--The big part of this problem is mentally ill on the street. Locked up in a State Hospital = no gun access.

I don't see a lot of nuance there. And these aren't extremists, they're regular people with voting rights and would happily vote for someone who promised them those things. I think there are enough of them to make it happen, and enough people who could be convinced to support it. Let News for Dumb FUX float the idea, have the NRA kick some money in, and I think it would became very popular very quickly. And I don't think society in general will be interested in making the distinction between "mentally ill people who do mass shootings" and "mentally ill people who do not do mass shootings". After all, mentally ill people don't do mass shootings...until they do, right?

I absolutely support making the mental health system better, but let's be real, most people don't want to do it for us, they want to do it for themselves. And if locking us all up is cheaper, they won't want tax dollars being spent on treatment.

1. The nuance isn't in what people are saying - it's in what is actually causing the problem.

2. Taking an us against them mentality is generally a very bad thing. It means losing compassion, and empathy for the other side, and that's something that's generally helpful for finding a way to solve the problem.

And before you try saying something like 'Well, you're not mentally ill!' Yes. I am. Have been for well over 20 years, thank you.

It doesn't matter whether you're mentally ill or not. This person isn't interested in reason.

AYRPT

Oh, I know - but seeing as they decided to take the whole 'US MENTALLY ILL' vs 'THEM SANE FOLKS' stance, I figured it couldn't hurt to try.

You don't see the nuance because everything you've quoted is either from a) an intrinsically biased source or b) from a commenter.

You are cherry-picking in order to support your supposition.

The point isn't that the most levelheaded and respectful people are saying these things. The point is that a lot of people are saying them, enough to influence culture and potentially policy.

The case where the internet commenters and people from extremists blogs like this are capable of influencing policy and are indicative enough of mass opinion to be worth paying attention to is the case where you run the fuck out of the USA because we're all fucked, though.

Like, if what you're saying is true and this kind of paranoic fringe has enough of a voice to set policy, American politics is essentially doomed. It's bad enough that this wing of American politics exists & is as self-reinforced as it is, but it would be much worse if they were an important part of the national discourse that merits any attention.

You can't ignore people's potential political power just because they're not arguing logically. The Tea Party should have taught us that, if nothing else.

And regardless of their ability to influence the law, they're doing a very effective job of perpetuating a dangerous stigma. That's a problem on its own.

They're perpetuating that stigma, yes, but mostly within their closed-off, self-reinforced world. Which is BAD, yes, but which still is fundamentally limited.

I guess my broad point is that I don't believe that the people saying things like "Lock up everyone with mental illnesses" have the kind of broad reach to seriously effect the consensus on mental health and the response to Sandy Hook. And so basing your opinion of any movement to improve the mental health system that eventually comes out of Sandy Hook on comments like these is not necessarily valid. And if it is valid, and comments like these have serious play and do affect our debate in more than a second-order way - I mean, yes, every vote affects something, and they drive politics to the right, but I mean if they're a serious part of the conversation and the eventual consensus - we all have bigger things to worry about than mental health treatment in this country, and need to start making serious plans about leaving the country.

Because those people are terrifying.

Well, yes, internet commenters and people on blogs with names like "legalinsurrection" believe ridiculous things. Those people are extremists, even if they can vote. Seriously, didn't you ever hear that the cardinal rule of the Internet is "never read comments on a news site"? The important point is that the discourse on why mental health matters is not made up entirely of these people - they're the froth on the wave. And people are able to make the crucial distinction between mentally ill people and people who do mass shootings, because one of the important points to be made is that mental health issues are fairly pervasive, and it's your brother, it's your sister, it's your mother, and it calls for compassion. And people who aren't making ridiculous comments on news sites, or posting on far-right paranoiac blogs, can see that.

I mean seriously, if you regarded Internet news site commentators and the right-wing blogosphere as indicative of the views of the United States as a whole, you'd think that the nation wanted to bring back Jim Crow.

This sounds like the No True Scotsman fallacy to me. If no one worth taking seriously would say such things about people with mental illness, then you can discount the fact that a lot of people are saying it, because they're definitionally not worth taking seriously. And that ignores the fact that whether they're extremists or not, they're there, and they're having an impact on our culture's hostility to people with mental illness.

I apologize for any lack of clarity. What I meant to say was that they're not taking seriously because the two groups that OP found these kinds of attitudes from were news site commenters and people from paranoid, right-wing, extremist gun owner's sites with names like Legal Insurrection - which, seriously, that should give you an idea what kind of people and what ideology we're dealing with here - and those are two groups that we should, in general, regard as not worth taking seriously, and which a reasonable person should expect to be saying ridiculous, absurd things. And so we shouldn't be surprised that they have ridiculous, wrong opinions on this subject, and we should be prepared in advance to not take their ridiculous, wrong opinions as indicative of the general feeling of the country.

It's true that they have an impact on our culture. I don't think - in general, not on this issue - that it's a hugely substantial impact. If I did think that, I would be making plans to leave the country.

And people are able to make the crucial distinction between mentally ill people and people who do mass shootings, because one of the important points to be made is that mental health issues are fairly pervasive, and it's your brother, it's your sister, it's your mother, and it calls for compassion. And people who aren't making ridiculous comments on news sites, or posting on far-right paranoiac blogs, can see that.

Okay well on a similar vein how many people have been keeping gay marriage illegal because they think "every gay man is a pedophile" or that it will lead to people marrying their dogs? I've heard both those arguments over and over and over and over and they're both ridiculous but there's apparently enough people who believe these ridiculous ideas that gay marriage is still illegal in most places.

Frankly, I don't trust that the "people who aren't making ridiculous comments on news sites" are any better than the ones who Are making ridiculous comments, because it's a mob mentality. Mentally ill people are a scapegoat right now, something to point fingers at so they feel better about themselves and have something to blame for a senseless violent act.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2177 ]

OP all-purpose response (Re: Mass shootings and The Mentally Ill)

Re: OP all-purpose response (Re: Mass shootings and The Mentally Ill)

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Re: OP all-purpose response (Re: Mass shootings and The Mentally Ill)

Re: OP all-purpose response (Re: Mass shootings and The Mentally Ill)

Re: OP all-purpose response (Re: Mass shootings and The Mentally Ill)

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Re: OP all-purpose response (Re: Mass shootings and The Mentally Ill)

Re: OP all-purpose response (Re: Mass shootings and The Mentally Ill)