[ SECRET POST #2236 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2236 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.
[Inda series]


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02.
[Les Miserables and Discworld]

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03.
[Three Kingdoms 2010, Legend of Chu and Han]


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04.



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05.
[DBSK]


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06.
[The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (Shivering Isles)]


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07.


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08.


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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]













09. [SPOILERS for ]

[Umineko no Naku Koro Ni]


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10. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]



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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]














11. [WARNING for rape]



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12. [possible warning for sexual assault (as I'm sure the thread will contain discussion of it)]



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13. [WARNING for abuse]



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14. [WARNING for rape, abuse, etc]



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15. [WARNING for suicide]



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16. [WARNING for eating disorders]



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17. [WARNING for rape/non-con]

[Homestuck]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #319.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Just because there's no rape at the Wall doesn't make the fact that the rape threats towards women in ASOIAF are realistic any less true. And I'm really not sure there's even a medieval society similar enough to the Night's Watch to compare it to for a purpose such as this.

Plus, even without rape, being at the Wall IS a living hell for the Night's Watch. You calling it PG is pretty cute.

Also, there are implications that Tommen and Victarion were both molested by their older brothers at least once. So let's see:

Implied rapes of major male characters: 2

Actual rapes of major male characters: 1

Implied rapes of major female characters: 0

Actual rapes of major female characters: 1

I'm not seeing how the ladies have it so much worse. Unless you're specifically talking about the rape of background characters, most of whom don't even have names and can be counted on one finger. Not that rape is any less horrible just because it happens to certain people and not others, but let's be real. It's still very different when it's a major character that you've come to know and (maybe) love.

Now I'm not saying that you can't be disgusted at the rape in ASOIAF. Rape is disgusting! And if you don't want to read or watch the series, more power to you. But you're really not going to convince me or anyone else that we should have a problem with the way rape is presented in the series.

[(Anonymous)]

SJWs aren't bothered by male rape. I've seen feminists say that the male soldiers who get raped have it coming because men rape women.

[(Anonymous)]

As a femenists who advocates for recognition of male-rape, equal treatment in the shelter system and bias-free abuse education, go fuck yourself for comparing SJW to femenism and allocating a large group of people to their radical fringes.

[chardmonster]

Hey, let's not play the "one true feminism" card here.

I'm a feminist who's seen a lot of feminists be really gross about transwomen, for example.

There are a lot of SJWs who like to talk up their feminism without, you know... understanding the implications.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't disagree with any of your points. There isn't a one true femenist and there are certainly many fucked-up trends in the community itself.

I still feel it's innacurate to correlate femenism with that degree of misandry.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, they generalized about all SJWs but not all feminists. It's not true about all SJWs either, but no one actually identifies as a SJW anyway.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Oh yes they do.



Ones who see what they do as the right thing.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

This, my god. A lot of so-called "feminists" have disgusting attitudes when it comes not only to transwomen, but to transmen as well.

[(Anonymous)]

allocating a large group of people to their radical fringes

Yeah. Sucks, doesn't it?

[insanenoodlyguy]

not sure what you are trying to imply here. What, that they do the same to SJW's?

Social Justice Warriors ARE the fringe group.

[yeahscience]

Yes, one or two people saying that definitely represents the entire feminist (or even the entire SJW) population. Stop.

[(Anonymous)]

They didn't say "ALL FEMINISTS SAY THIS." They said "I've SEEN feminists say this," which, actually, so have I, and so has anyone who's ever encountered any of the radical types. Not all feminists are like that, but some ARE, and frankly I've seen the more moderate types spend a LOT more time telling non-feminists that not all feminists are like that than they do chastising the actual radfems who are saying this. You want to be aiming your "This is not what feminism is about" lectures to the radfems who are perpetuating the stereotype by their actions, as well as the people who have had unfortunate encounters with said radfems.

[yeahscience]

Uh, yes, I do that when I see it. I don't see anyone here saying that, so there's not much I can do about it here. I have also seen a lot of people say things like, "I'm not a feminist because feminists ______" and that's a stupid generalization that needs to stop.

[(Anonymous)]

I've been chased out of enough feminist spaces for stupid stuff like "having male friends means you're on the MEN's SIDE" or "How DARE you say that male on male prison rape is as bad as male on female rape outside of prison, there is NO COMPARISON in prevalency OR victimization", while the moderates in the space basically sat by and watched or else barely spoke a weak word against it, to really have much faith in the general masses of "feminists" actually giving a crap about the radicals. If you need to explain to the majority of people you meet that the movement isn't (supposed to be) defined by the radicals, then the movement probably is getting most of its image from the radicals, and that is something that feminism DEFINITELY needs to work on, because the self-policing/explaining to outsiders that you're doing right now is not enough to overcome the loudness of the radicals.

[insanenoodlyguy]

I'd say though, that's not so much a feminist problem as a larger groupthink problem.

Though you'd think groups with folks that say "call out the assholes" (again, not just feminists) would get more turned back on them once they gave permisison.

[(Anonymous)]

I know, right? Generalizing a group of people based on the actions of a few is wrong. Feminists would never do such a thing.

[(Anonymous)]

Wah, wah, the poor traduced menz. It's only a few bad apples, there is no such thing as rape culture or rape apology, it's all in the minds of those evil, manhating feminists. Men are really niiice.

Yeah, right. Not in the experience of, um, pretty much every women ever, and not a few bullied men, transmen, transwomen and genderqueer people.

I'll believe it when I see the mainstream of culture and society taking any women's issues seriously.

[(Anonymous)]

There's enough recording of military/religious "societies" where women were scarce and hard to come by and the men were supposed to stay "celibate" to say that not having at least some form of assault is a hugely unrealistic oversight.

[(Anonymous)]

Just a small correction, it's implied that Aeron was raped/molested by Euron; not Victarion.

[(Anonymous)]

Just being a bit nipicky but I believe it was Aeron (Damphair) and not Victarion who was molested. Aeron is the one who always thinks about a door with screeching hinges closing and really fears Crow's Eye.

[(Anonymous)]

You're forgetting though that both Dany and Cersei were raped by their husbands multiple times. Just because its their husband doesn't change the fact that it was rape.

[(Anonymous)]

da

See, this is the problem I have with this entire thread and everyone going on and on about those damn SJW not caring about male rape victims. While it's true that SJW tend to say pretty horrifying things about male victims, I can't help but think that this accusation completely misses the point. As you pointed out, female rape is so common that it's practically considered natural and not worth mentioning or even not considered rape. It's enough to say that I I was spoiled about the scene before reading the books and the spoilers made me believe for a very long time that Jeyne wasn't even present at the time of Theon's rape. The discussions made it seem like the rape was only between him and Ramsey. Jayne's trauma is completely brushed off by the same people who accuse SJW of doing the same to Theon.

[(Anonymous)]

da

People usually talk more about Theon because Theon a) is a POV character and b) was systematically tortured and abused by Ramsay for MONTHS. I'm not dismissing Jeyne's trauma, at all, but I think it's only natural that people are more concerned with the trauma of a main character.

[ariakas]

Oh come on, why would you even post this? This is one of the most popular book series out there, and everyone who's read can tell this is complete horseshit. Quibble about who makes a "major" character all you like, but the fact remains that the books are still horridly skewed. There are plenty of "major" characters I just don't give a shit about, and things that occur in the background that I do - I'm sure many people feel the same. That you have to distort the way the books represent rape this way just to make your point in the first place speaks volumes.

I mean, come on it's been years since I read the earlier books, and I can still remember that it was explicitly mentioned that the sorceress who kills Drogo was raped, repeatedly. Tyrion's wife was gangraped - this is explicitly mentioned in his memories, several times. The Greyjoys explicitly rape, on screen, the noble wives - and some daughters - of knights at a feast. And that's just what I can come up with off the top of my head!

In the fifth book, which I remember more clearly, the female mercenary's explicitly mentioned to have been raped repeatedly by her own comrades, the Greyjoy captain sailing east has slave woman - with her tongue cut out no less - who is repeatedly raped by him on screen. The fake Arya is repeatedly raped - sometimes by dogs. (...And yet all everyone ever seems to come out of that book with is 'oh no, poor Theon!'.)

If we're counting implied rapes, well, rape is explicitly stated to be the Dorthraki's MO when the conquer, so that's hundreds, probably thousands of rapes we've got in Dany's chapters, the Greyjoy's kidnapped wives, the Greyjoy's kidnapping female slaves (while they throw the male slaves overboard, we are told they rape the female ones... and then throw many of them overboard). ...I mean, seriously?

The scoreboard really looks more like this:

Implied rapes of male characters: 2

Actual rapes of male characters: 2 (you forgot the priest from the fifth book)

Actual rapes of female characters: dozens (especially if we're counting multiple incidences, such as Tysha)

Implied rapes of female characters: THOUSANDS

Not to say that sexual violence isn't gendered - but it usually isn't that gendered, and there's a hell of a lot more of it when it comes to men in prison and the army, which we see a fair bit of in ASoIaF.

Finally:

Just because there's no rape at the Wall doesn't make the fact that the rape threats towards women in ASOIAF are realistic any less true.

Just because the threats toward women in the series are realistic doesn't make the fact that there's no rape at the Wall less unrealistic.

And I'm really not sure there's even a medieval society similar enough to the Night's Watch to compare it to for a purpose such as this.

How's it not? With the proper militaries you have camp followers back then, to be sure, but even today soldiers visit prostitutes on leave and that doesn't curb the incidence of rape. There's Mole Town, but not only is access to it restricted, it isn't even accessible from the other towers like Eastwatch. The Night's Watch is gender-segregated precisely like our modern organization in which the rape of men by men is extreme frequent are.

You calling it PG is pretty cute.

You can show death and starvation and cold in PG films - OP's got a point here, honestly. All the threats the NW face are the "badass" ones that let them be "warriors" and "protectors" rather than victims.

But you're really not going to convince me or anyone else that we should have a problem with the way rape is presented in the series.

You, maybe not, because you have a grossly skewed view of the series, but it sure looks like OP's actually done a good job of convincing plenty of people, so that just ain't true either, is it?

[(Anonymous)]

+ A MILLION

This was honestly the comment I was looking for underneath this secret, as someone not familiar with the books themselves. I'm seriously bookmarking it.