fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2243 ]

[ SECRET POST #2243 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2243 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[Evolution]

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03.

[My Chemical Romance and One Direction]

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04.

[silence of the lambs]

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05. http://oi46.tinypic.com/vzc4lk.jpg
[linked for casual nudity; not porn but not the artsy kind either]

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06. http://i48.tinypic.com/2ivll3b.png
[somewhat sexual photomanip]

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07. http://i.imgur.com/88IwqTG.jpg
[and this one has naked kim jong il in it]

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08.

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09.

[paranatural]

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10.

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11.

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12.

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13.

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

14. [SPOILERS for Walking Dead]

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15. [SPOILERS for Super Dangan Ronpa 2]

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16. [SPOILERS for Pokemon BW 2]

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17. [SPOILERS for Walking Dead]

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18. [SPOILERS for Homestuck]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

19. [WARNING for rape]

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20. [WARNING for dub-con]

[The Rocketeer]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #320.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - template ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm kinda curious as to what you've heard.

Your assumptions might be way off. Mine were.

But yeah, what the above anon says. You don't have to like it.

There seem to be a great many people that are pissed because they can't run around telling homestuck fans to kill themselves. Apparently they think this a thing they should be allowed to do with no backlash.

Way to jump to conclusions - I said nothing about my hatred for the fans (which isn't much - I'm greatly annoyed at the ones who keep putting the seizure-inducing gifs in their forum signatures and icons/avatars, and the ones that do that stupid kismet-shipping thing or whatever the fuck it is for every other fucking fandom they're in like it totally makes sense, but that's the extent of my "hatred"). I'm actually sad that I can't be a fan of it and enjoy it along with my friends and the rest of the goddamn internet because I can't stand the style and nothing I've heard about it makes me want to try.

Homestuck (the actual comic itself) makes me angry, and that makes me sad because I'm missing out on having a shared fandom with a lot of my friends.

Hate-shipping has been a thing for a long, long time -- Homestuck gave it a new name, but I'm not sure it even gave it a boost in frequency.

I was just about to say this! Hate-shipping (or Foe Yay Shipping, as TV Tropes calls it) has existed for as long as shipping itself has existed.

It's that stupid "quadrant" think that I'm actually talking about - I forgot the term for it for a minute. (And the fact that I know what the term even is, despite actively trying to avoid Homestuck, should tell you something.) I know hate-shipping is a thing, but unless you're talking about HS pairings, just fucking call it hate-shipping, my god. It doesn't need a new, more obscure name.

I won't bother explaning it in depth to you cause it'd piss you off more, but that's just language, op. When the right word comes along, it'll perpetuate. Also, if correctly used, it's mean to describe a relationship both parties desire, as opposed to the kind where they end up confused. Though people misusing it is something you can't just blame on the homestucks.

Well, I'm not sure if this will help you, OP, but imma gonna try anyway, and explain why I actually LIKE the quadrant thing... even though you're correct in that it's mostly just giving names to things that already exist. Mostly.

What I like about troll quadrants:

1. The names for each quadrant romance type are actually very nice coinages. Kismesissitude (the hate-shipping quadrant), for instance, is a smash up of the words "kismet" and "nemesis," so the definition is right there in the word itself: "fated enemy." It's the same for morallegience... "moirai" comes from a Greek term for a Greek god of fate, and then of course there is the whole "allegience" part of it: it's a "fated allegience." I think that just from a linguistic POV I find these terms pleasant and fun, since they are just so clever and make me wish I'd come up with them.

2. Relating to point #1, each of the terms makes some kind of allusion to fate in terms of the meaning. The concept of "fate" is a Big Deal in troll romances and it's implied that it's way more crucial to their understanding of romance than it is for humans... they generally believe that their relationships are ~~fated~~ in some way, and it's seen as something that is very central to a troll's identity, almost as central as gender identity usually is to we humans. A troll without their romantic quadrants filled is seen as somewhat incomplete and lesser based on troll cultural traditions... so much so that trolls who do not have at least two of the quadrants filled by the time they are grown up will be killed... it's romance as IMPERATIVE, and this allows for certain good critiques of that worldview.

3. Relating to point #3, the narrative goes out of its way to subvert this troll worldview... even though troll culture tells our young troll heros that romance is a matter of fate, experience does not bear this out, and trolls seem to succeed or fail based largely on how much they can set aside these ingrained beliefs and accept that their identities don't NEED to be defined by romance, and that the end of a romance doesn't HAVE to mean they are failures as trolls, and that you can break up with people and start dating new people in each of these quadrants and it's okay.

Mostly, I see it as Hussie making some larger points about how romance is often dealt with in other fantasy-adventure stories of this sort. By creating a BIG DEAL COMPLEX DESTINY-DRIVEN system for the trolls and then making it so that NO troll is (or seems capable of!) succeeding at filling ALL of their "mandatory" quadrants seems to be a way of showing that even though romance is important, it doesn't have to be the most important thing ever... and that it's not more important than friendship. It's not that he's denigrating romance either: I just think he wants to show his young readership that romance is more of a process and something that it's okay to experiment with/not be serious about/fuck up in... that doing all these things is a part of growing up, and that although having all these different types of romance can be nice they are truly optional and have nothing to do with any given character's worth as an individual.

So... honestly, I think that it's not really that he just created an arbitrary system to add needless complexity to things. I think he created it as a means to make a point, and he makes that point by subverting the very system he created. In the context of the overall story of Homestuck, I find this really neat!

Now, I understand this might not convince you at all... might not even make you hate the whole quadrant thing less... but I figure it is worth a shot! :)

Edited 2013-02-23 02:05 (UTC)

this is a really good comment

not op

I also really like it because in fiction, we tend to have just one ideal about what romantic relationships should be, even though relationships in reality are a lot more complicated. And then Homestuck gives us a society that has four very different ideals about relationships, and none of them are really portrayed as being more important, ideal, or "right" than the others.

Ok, this is kind of bothering me. For one thing, kismesissitude is not the same thing as "hate-shipping" (at least not exactly? it kinda seems more nuanced to me since it's actually a developed idea and not just "I want these two guys who are always mean to each other to fuck") and for shipping characters as kismeses in other fandoms is literally nothing more than another way to cross over two fandoms, so why does it bother you so much? You don't have to do it. You do kind of sound like you're trying to squish everyone's fun here.

Sorry, anon. There are actually a lot of people who don't like it. Several of them are still my good friends, we just enjoy other things together.

(Anyway, in defense of the shipping thing--the four types of romance are actually kind of a joke based on things that shippers were already doing. Regular love, enemies-in-love/hatesex, sappy cuddly fluff, and the last one is kind of ot3s. I know it looks annoying to people not used to the words, I personally wouldn't do it when talking to a non-homestuck person, but it does make some sort of sense.)

Edited 2013-02-23 00:58 (UTC)

I was talking in general terms. Not saying you were telling people to off themselves. Stop being so defensive and go watching or read something you DO LIKE and grow the fuck up.

The biggest butthurt in the thread so far is you. Re-fucking-lax

Sorry, yeah, like I said above I'm twitchy over other stuff going on. I'm just going to stay out of this secret thread because I can't be objective about this right now.

Hey Op though, if I can ask... most people who try to read homestuck and can't get through it tend to just say "It was boring" as opposed to "It angered me"

I'm curious, along with nurse it seems, exactly what makes you angry about it, if you can put that into words? Is it the art? I promise this isn't' me about to try to convert you, I'm just curious.

Edited 2013-02-23 01:03 (UTC)

Part of it is the art (I don't know why, it's just viscerally unappealing to me), part of it is resentment over the aforementioned seizure-inducing gifs that get posted everywhere, and part of it is my annoyance at the fact that it's everywhere, even in other fandom spaces. On top of that, all the criticisms I've seen of it with regards to how it handles certain things makes me wary of investing my time in something that might just make me flip a table 200+ chapters in or however long it is right now. The fact that I don't like the art and the format just means that I'm not even willing to try to affirm or deny my preconceptions. And I mean, I did try once, but I looked at the first page or two and it just...makes me feel like it doesn't want to be read. And I'm not big on hate-reading or actively fighting for my enjoyment.

I know it's not boring because my friends all pretty much livetweet their reactions on twitter - I know it's interesting and fun and dramatic, and I know it's slow at the beginning and picks up later. And honestly, I probably would have fun with it if I could get into it - hell, I'd probably be just as annoying as the rest of my friends about it. (They're actually not that annoying about it - I can objectively see that they're no more chatty about it than any other fandom they or I am into.) But it's like...I can't, and because I can't and everyone else can, I'm angry about it, and my anger towards it makes me more unable to try to get into it, and it's just a vicious cycle of, "I wish this thing everybody liked would go away/stop being likable so I don't have to be unhappy about disliking it."

I've never really had this problem with anything else before because my friends and I share a lot of fandoms and generally have similar opinions on things, but this is one thing that most of them are into or are getting into and I'm out of the loop because I can't even bring myself to give it a chance :/

I like Homestuck, but I see where you're coming on the seizure-inducing gifs. I just started reading it recently, so I've been archive-binging, and sometimes I just have to take a break, because the constant panels where a character's shaking around like they're having a seizure give me a headache.

If you really want to try it, and a big part of the barrier is the art style and flashing gifs, go over here. You can just read it as the text, and click the links any time you think you might be missing something and really need the visual reference.

I can't help you with the bitterness cycle, but if you know that's part of your problem, you can try to separate things out in your head I guess? Or just start on a day when you're hitting the 'man there is cool stuff here I wish I could -' part of the cycle instead of the 'and I CAN'T and it SUCKS' part.

As someone who took three tries to get into homestuck and loves it now, I hope you *can* get into it, but if it's really not for you, then it's not, and that's okay. There are other fandoms with cool stuff too.

Edited 2013-02-23 06:39 (UTC)

That's actually really close to how I felt about it for a long time, and I had to gradually ease myself into it. I don't know what you can do, except maybe adblock it? I am still curious about the "certain things", but I won't press you about it.

Well, I raise my eyebrow at some of the "criticisms" because SJW and idiots like the people who run calloutstuck accuse this thing of some pretty stupid things. I'd bet if you were that far in, you'd have the context to know what was going on and I don't think those things would anger you half as much as the biased versions of events.

That said, I promised I wasn't going to try to convert you and I meant it. The truth is, getting to those events I mentioned would mean hours to days of investment. And if you hate the art, well shit, that's a lot of fucking time. And the gifs are something that perpetually happen through the whole damn thing.

I would only ask that you take those criticisms with the same grain of salt you take all the other ones for other fandoms you like out there. this comic is not some great social commentary and was never meant to be and just cause it made a caucasian joke once isn't a reason to hate it. You have plenty of legit reasons not to like it, stick to those!

I normally link folks to the music so they can at least like something about homestuck but I'll do you a favor and forego that this time. I'm sure your friends already tried.

Not OP, but I definitely resented homestuck for a while after I gave it a try. I'm over it now, I'm indifferent, but for me it was because of the GIANT TIME INVESTMENT I wasted on something I ultimately never stopped hating.

I wanted to stop reading homestuck after five minutes. Normally, when I start something new and I really don't like it, I put it away, no hard feelings. But with homestuck, I was pre-warned by the people who recced it to me: the beginning was kind of boring. It took a long time to build up to awesomeness. But it would be totally worth it, because the payoff was awesome!

So I continued. I wasted hours and hours of my precious free time (full-time employed, so I only have a limited amount of time to spend on my hobbies) struggling my way through this comic I hated. I got to Act 3, still hating every moment. So I said to my friends, 'Look, I really don't think this is for me. It's not even that I'm not that into it, I actually hate it. I don't think I'm going to change my mind'. But even then, they insisted that it would get better. I just needed to get to the trolls! They really hated it too! Oh yeah, that bit sucks, you just need to get through it!

But guess what? I got to the trolls, and I still hated it! I never ended up liking anything about Homestuck, but by the time I got to a point where people were no longer telling me I just hadn't made it to the good bits yet, I'd invested SO MUCH OF MY TIME into reading this bullshit that for a good while afterwards, every mention of Homestuck made me pretty angry.

Okay yeah that was way too long. I'm very much a preacher of "You gotta get through that first slow part!" But I say if by WV: Ascend (I think that's like, 200 or so pages in, anybody who doesn't know homestuck, understand pages are of varying length and some are just a single panel picture for 4 pages straight), you aren't into it? You aren't, stop trying, don't bother. Going to the trolls is way way way too far. Sorry you got such bad advice.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2243 ]

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OP

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Thanks OP

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