Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2013-03-10 03:39 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2013-03-10 03:39 pm
[ SECRET POST #2259 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2259 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #323.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-10 09:15 pm (UTC)(link)But yeah, I just took a Doctor Who community off my friends list because I was getting tired of the complaints about River about Angels in Manhattan about the 11th Doctor's behavior in episodes and whatever else! The thing is I don't even disagree with half the complaints (or when I do it's not to the same degree) I'm just really fucking tired of hearing it. Whatever I'm focusing on the Classic serials anyway for now just to get some peace.
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-10 09:31 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2013-03-10 10:19 pm (UTC)(link)Yep, completely agreed. Classic Who is great for drowning out the annoying that New Who can become. Plus if you add in BF and the novels, the show goes on practically forever, and it's amazing.
And awh, Fivey has his fun and adorable moments too. He does make Ten and Eleven look awfully whiny in comparison, given how comparatively well he deals with all the crap that happens to him which is quite a bit worse than anything that's happened to either of them.
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-10 10:30 pm (UTC)(link)To be clear - it's New Who fandom I'm finding annoying at times, not the show itself because I don't have nearly as much of a problem with it as many seem too. I mean I get many of the issues, but they were never bad enough to impact my enjoyment of the show.
But yes all the Classic Who is amazing and it feels like I could spend forever exploring it all. People keep saying how dark 5 is here! I'm going to have to watch for that! :)
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-10 10:55 pm (UTC)(link)He's not exactly a dark!Doctor though. He's actually quite a sweetheart, he's not half as manipulative as most of the other Doctors, and he's one of the more human Doctors. He certainly has his moments of darkness/complete temper tantrums when he gets upset, and he can get quite scary in those instances, but he's no darker of a character than the Doctor normally is.
His episodes, on the other hand, are some of the darkest. Lots of people die, his companions hate him half the time, and people like beating him up.
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-10 11:03 pm (UTC)(link)That's what I meant - that people say his episodes are dark - I just mistyped. Anyway I'm working my way through the Doctors! Hopefully I'll get to some of Five's serials soon. Need to see some of 4 first though!
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-10 11:18 pm (UTC)(link)I found it really interesting actually (I find Five fascinating in general because he's a very atypical Doctor). How completely bereft of genuine enthusiasm and life and joy he becomes by season 21. Especially after Tegan leaves -- he goes through Planet of Fire kind of mechanically, and kinda just sits there watching the Master burn. And by the Caves of Androzani his entire motivation has narrowed down to "save Peri, save Peri, save Peri" and he dies doing exactly that. It's amazing. Well, not amazing for poor Five, but amazing from a viewing perspective. A lot more subtle than New Who as well, but I'm not complaining since I also love my angst and drama :)
Also, honestly...it's not like Five and Ten/Eleven are parallels in comparable situations. It's iffy to "compare" regenerations like they're different people. You can compare regeneration to show the Doctor's character development and change, but it's not a reset button. Not only was Five a lot younger than Ten and Eleven and therefore a lot less experienced with loss and pain and shit, and hadn't been through the Time War yet...you gotta remember that Ten and Eleven have been Five already. They're not separate people. The Doctor might have been able to hold it together the first time really bad shit started happening to him -- i.e., when he was Five -- but after going through what Five went through, and after the war, it makes sense for him to be more sensitive about it.
If he didn't regenerate it would make sense for him to be less sensitive about it, but regenerations generally nudge his personality in a direction that opposes the previous regeneration's excesses. It's kind of interesting, actually. Most people react messily to trauma when they're inexperienced and become desensitized when they get older, but the Doctor becomes more sensitive, almost like his personality is compensating for his experiences.
Say what you will about Ten's drama-llama (I love making fun of it, though I love him), but he really, really, really needed to get that stuff out of his system. And it's also good that Eleven has actually tried out not helping people at least once in the Doctor's life since he became Two, to ensure that yes, he does genuinely prefer to help people. Logical but very atypical, love that kind of thing. :)
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-10 11:25 pm (UTC)(link)YAY someone who doesn't hate that 11 decided to stop helping for a while. Shit you would think people would be more understanding of the idea that maybe he just finally had ENOUGH of everything and wanting to do nothing for a little while. But no it's OMG HOW DARE HE STOP HELPING! He's supposed to be the self sacrificing hero! I may not have seen all the Classic Serials b yet but I have to figure after over 1000 years he was due for it.
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-10 11:26 pm (UTC)(link)oops I'm not the anon the other anon replied to, I'm the anon intrigueing replied to.
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-10 11:38 pm (UTC)(link)Yes exactly! I mean, okay, I DID want to smack him a little, partly because he was overreacting IMO (the idea would've worked better if he had done it after something way more horrible had happened..they did live together happily until their eighties, after all), and partly because given the situation, I couldn't help comparing it to Ten helping Donna without a second thought right after losing Rose (and Ten's more angsty than Eleven!) But all in all, his actions make a lot of sense and are pretty understandable if you view it from "fuck it, I'm tired, I'm done, I hate everything and I just can't anymore" perspective, with losing Amy and Rory being the straw that broke the camel's back.
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-10 11:51 pm (UTC)(link)Yeah - I can agree that it was an overreaction, but the core idea of him being like you said: "fuck it, I'm tired, I'm done, I hate everything and I just can't anymore" + Amy and Rory being the straw that broke the camels back for him is spot on for how I saw it. Also while 10 was more angsty it was mostly internal and subdued, 11 has always been a lot more outgoing and expressive in his reactions. Plus it was kind fun watching Clara practically bully him out of his funk. ;)
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-11 12:39 am (UTC)(link)What I meant by Five handling it well is not that he was handling it healthily (although, I'm honestly not sure what a healthy reaction to the Doctor's experiences would even be- they'd break just about anyone), but that he didn't complain about it in the way that the New Who Doctors do. The utterly shattered "there should have been another way" at the end of Warriors of the Deep is the most he ever let on, but shutting down is no healthier than angsting visibly, and I'm sorry I implied that.
I absolutely loved season 21 and how completely tragic it was. Even at the end of the rather silly two parter about the historical reenactment gone wrong, the Doctor says that he's had a hard day, and is so stressed out by the prospect of hanging out with Tegan's grandfather that he has to be coerced. The danger was already over, and there was nothing difficult about it, but he'd really lost his tolerance. I've made fun of Ten's behaviour in EoT, but honestly raging about the fact that you're dying is a better place than the Doctor was in during Caves, when he hardly even seemed to care. Especially since all he would have had to do to survive (and what any rationally acting person would have done) was take his dose of the medicine as soon as he got it.
I can't honestly hold the Doctor letting the Master die against him though. It's scary in that it's so un Doctor-y, and it shows that his own morals have relaxed, but the universe really would be better off without the Master, and letting him die is the responsible thing to do. Not rescuing the villain is actually pretty good hero-ing.
That's really interesting about Ten and Eleven having already experienced Five's traumas. I mean, I knew that, but I've never really thought about it that way. It's fascinating, and I'm certainly going to be paying attention to that next time I re-watch New Who.
I love Ten as well, but yeah, I also like making fun of him. I think he may have over-reacted a bit with Rose, given that she was perfectly safe and fine and with her family, just not with him anymore, but I do understand why he would be upset about it. Same with Eleven and the Ponds. For the most part, though, the Doctor has 'earned' all of his angst. They put that poor character through so much hell. I agree that it wasn't a terrible thing for Eleven to decide to take a break for a bit- better that than keep going when he can't handle it, but I'm glad he seems to be back in the game now.
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-11 01:16 am (UTC)(link)I jumped around so much when first watching both Classic Who and New Who that the Doctors and the eras are always kind of side by side in my mind and I'm constantly looking for similarities and differences and progression and stuff. I didn't pick up that bit from The Awakening -- that's a good point. Hmm, now you're making think about Five's increasing tendency to lose interest and get stressed out over little things over the course of his run...need to watch out for that next time I rewatch.
And oh, I don't blame the Doctor for letting the Master die one bit, because yeah, you're right. I was thinking more about what his attitude towards the Master's death seemed to imply about him. It was so weird. It wasn't even cold and ruthless and scary like...Seven blowing up Davros and Skaro, or Ten slaughtering the Racnoss babies. It was like he was going "Huh. Oh. That happened. That's...that's a good thing. I don't need to stop that." Like he couldn't even summon up the energy to react because he was too burnt out and tired, or something.
I adore New Who (and it gave me a whole new wonderful layer of appreciation for Old Who), but I think my biggest complaint about it is that both Davies and Moffat don't really seem to know when to quit. Ten angsting over Rose? Great, makes sense, but did it have to go on for a whole season? Eleven's whole "everyone's scared of you!" arc. Great, makes sense, but did it have to be retreaded that many times? I think dwelling on the same stuff too much kind of limits the range of ideas that can be explored.
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-11 02:53 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2013-03-11 01:36 am (UTC)(link)There was a meta post about the Doctor through regenerations and the overall character arc for the March Month of Meta last year:
http://icarus-chained.livejournal.com/306025.html
It's a bit shaky in places, and the authors haven't seen much of Eleven, but it was interesting enough.
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-10 10:44 pm (UTC)(link)After Three and Four, I found Five to be overall bland, tbqh. But more characters! So that was a bonus over either Three or Four.
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(Anonymous) 2013-03-10 11:49 pm (UTC)(link)