fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2272 ]

[ SECRET POST #2272 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2272 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 140 secrets from Secret Submission Post #325.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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It is a real thing. It's just that the Internet tends to grant way too much importance to extremely marginal examples of it.

I'd be interested in what you would consider some valid examples?

(not OP)

Using Native American totems as mascots for sports teams that are not Native and are in no way involved with Natives? I'm just going out on a limb there, if anyone wants to correct me, feel free to do so!

But
is it a thing that genuinely bothers someone? Because I see nothing bad in this.

Yes.

Yes, it is a thing that genuinely bothers people, both American Indians and others, especially when the logos used are caricatures (see: "Redskins" as the name for a sports team, which has a history as a borderline-slur, or the Cleveland Indians logo, which almost gets to the point of caricature that way). Both in itself, and because it tends to contribute to stereotypes in society that are actively harmful (although this tends to have more to do with other depictions in society than sports team logos do).

Here's a really good blog all about this kind of thing: http://nativeappropriations.com/

>Spends entire post complaining about caricatures

'...and that's why appropriation is wrong!'

?

I was speaking to the post, not to the thread, if you follow me.

Re: Appropriation

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-23 21:38 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Appropriation

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-23 21:43 (UTC) - Expand

Yeah, I think I see it now. People here don't tend to do this kind of thing (when the stereotypes are used, they're usually simply negative stereotypes, as in "members of this social group drink and swear a lot"), but I'd totally be bothered if it was a "stereotype+negative subtext" combination.

How do you feel about the fighting irish?

It does not bother me for a number of reasons. First, because there's an actual historical connection between Notre Dame and the Irish - I mean, it's a Catholic university that drew heavily on the Irish diaspora in America for its students for a long time, and that also has an extremely sizable Irish-American fanbase. Second, because there's no real prejudice against Irish Americans anymore. Third, I think there's a difference between the way that Irishness is depicted (nowadays, at least) in the Fighting Irish mascot when you compare it to the way that American Indians are often portrayed in sports logos, when you look at things like Redskins, and Chief Wahoo, and the Tomahawk Chop. I think that's in a different category.

(I don't think it matters but for reference: I'm Irish-American myself, and don't have any Native American heritage whatsoever. and my grandma's side of the family are all Notre Dame fans)

Re: Appropriation

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-23 23:48 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Appropriation

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-23 23:58 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Appropriation

chardmonster - 2013-03-24 02:42 (UTC) - Expand

DA

I find it funny, tbh. Particularly since there was actually a confederate unit nicknamed that during the American Civil War [because it was made up entirely of Irish immigrants/the descendants of them]. They were also the only unit the confederate government granted medals too. /triva

tl;dr: I find it funny because they're ignoring certain history attached to that name when they use it.

nayrt

What about american rock music? Elvis etc becoming wildly popular singing and playing what was previously "black music", while failing to challenge all the cultural and economic barriers to black people making a similar living off of their music.

I know it's an old one, but if that's not appropriation I don't know what is.

:| Not sure if serious.

I thought this is what appropriation was. Feel free to tell me why I'm wrong, or link me to an explanation.
Seriously. I post anon so I can get my stupid opinions torn apart before I admit to them publicly. It's a good system.

That is a kind of appropriation. I'm not sure why the anon reacted that way.

That's called cowardice, actually.

Re: Appropriation

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-24 03:08 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Appropriation

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-24 05:13 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Appropriation

charming_stranger - 2013-03-24 13:23 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Appropriation

chardmonster - 2013-03-24 15:58 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Appropriation

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-24 16:20 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Appropriation

charming_stranger - 2013-03-24 17:18 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Appropriation

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-24 18:09 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Appropriation

charming_stranger - 2013-03-24 18:18 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Appropriation

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-24 19:32 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Appropriation

charming_stranger - 2013-03-24 20:07 (UTC) - Expand

No, this is definitely something that people have talked about (and I don't mean sjw tumblrites). I don't know a whole lot about it, I'm no expert on music history, but this is definitely a thing and you're not nuts.

The way I understand appropriation in a non-sjw sense is that appropriation can actually take a cultural practice away/make it inaccessible to actual members of that culture, and that's what makes it harmful. I'm pretty sure there's discussion about that within music history. Although obviously, there really isn't and shouldn't be a way of stopping influences in art.

I agree with this.

Borrowing something from another culture but ignoring the religious significance or cultural gravity of that thing is douchey.

But I don't really get why tumblr gets worked up about... a lot of the things it gets worked up about.

I think I'll go with this. I've been getting increasingly irritated with the "appropriation" examples showing up on tumblr over the stupidiest shit and I figured they're just wasting their time and energy on irrelevant stuff instead of getting out there over important things.

and then they divide the cultures because everyone's too fucking afraid to discover or learn about others because "APPROPRIATION"

i,e the stupid Harlem Shake is appropriation. I don't think anyone seriously thinks ~white males~ created the Harlem Shake or associate it with ?Harlem? '9hell after watching the video I'm not any more knowledgeable on what it's mean to be "appropriating". It's just a silly video that got loads of views for being silly.

I'm glad RL is a little more sensible, I imagine tumblr will go all ARGH APPROPRIATION if they saw me wearing a scarf or buying imported asian foods.

fuck you, that culture is sharing its food with me I am going to fucking eat it.

and then they divide the cultures because everyone's too fucking afraid to discover or learn about others because "APPROPRIATION"

For the record, I think we're giving tumblr too much credit here. I'm worried about tumblr scaring the portion of geeky kids who pay attention to tumblr away from neat stuff. Tumblr can affect people who pay attention to tumblr.

Meanwhile the world spins on, wearing whatever the fuck they want to wear and listening to whatever the fuck they want to listen to and making whatever the fuck music they like, while tumblr shoves itself further into its own navel.

You know, maybe tumblr is a good thing. The tumblr kids are so obsessed with tumblr that they don't seem to write a damn thing anywhere else. They're really easy to ignore.

ayrt

oh yeah my feelings on the matter are totally split depending on if it's online or IRL, but I rather dislikes the nervous anticipation I now have about wearing some things IRL, simply because I've seen 30k tumblr posts about how this and that is appropriation.

Like logically I know that tumblr is a teeny world mostly filled with american kids and therefore really not worth attention IRL, but it still niggles it's way it and damn does it make me angry.

Especially since half the trim appropriation just seems to be "enjoying or liking something that is apparently or supposed to be stereotypically X minority in America"

+1

Basically its just another way to divide and separate people.

Fffffuck, yes! This!
It's called "Harlem Shake" BECAUSE OF THE SONG BEING USED IN THE VIDEOS.
THAT
IS
IT.
No one is actually conflating it with Harlem!

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