Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2013-03-26 07:01 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2013-03-26 07:01 pm
[ SECRET POST #2275 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2275 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
01.
__________________________________________________
02.
__________________________________________________
03.
__________________________________________________
04.
__________________________________________________
05.
__________________________________________________
06.
__________________________________________________
07.
__________________________________________________
08.
__________________________________________________
09.
__________________________________________________
10.
__________________________________________________
11.
__________________________________________________
12.
__________________________________________________
13.
__________________________________________________
14.
__________________________________________________
15.
__________________________________________________
16.
__________________________________________________
17.
__________________________________________________
18.
__________________________________________________
19.
__________________________________________________
20.
__________________________________________________
Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 072 secrets from Secret Submission Post #325.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ like 7 or 8 troll secrets. Stopped counting ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: Anyone excited for new Doctor Who episodes?
The thing about the RTJ era was that while some of the episodes did carry social commentary, it was never parroted at you by a character or stated outright. For example, Adipose definitely has the moral of 'any quick fix magic pill that actually work likely has horrifying consequences', but nobody ever stops and says it.
Ten was always too busy focusing on the right thing, imo. He would be worried about the alien nanny making people explode to meet quota, or the people trapped on the highway, or the girl who forgot her parents because of the drug patches.
Meanwhile, Eleven has to stop and take a cheap shot at anyone who does anything Moffat doesn't agree with. Hell, he gets on Amy's case in an episode for wanting to take a photo of the 'most beautiful planet in the universe', shouting about how she wants to 'update her twitter' instead of go on an adventure. Except... that she just WANTS TO TAKE A PICTURE. And you just know that scene is only there so that the Doctor can turn up his nose at twitter.
And surprise surprise, that was also around the time Moffat shut down HIS twitter. Gosh, surely there isn't writer bias.
If this coming episode was done by RTD, I would imagine the solution would be something like EVERYONE GET ONLINE AND SPAM THE MONSTER FULL OF MESSAGES BECAUSE YOU LITTLE BEAUTIES CAN TYPE AT A MILE A MINUTE GOSH HUMANS ARE GREAT and everyone would come away feeling great as uplifting music plays.
It being Moffat, I imagine that the Doctor will snarkily shove aside all of the world experts trying to fix the problem and then fix the problem with his genius intellect and save the poor dumb humans from themselves again GOSH DARN.
That's the biggest difference for me in the end. Eleven is so nasty and petty to humans in the end, and the story backs him up (except for a select few that are okay sure) most of the time. Ten was excited and happy with humanity most of the time. He had a lot of hope. It made the show excited and engaging and made you HAPPY to watch.
Re: Anyone excited for new Doctor Who episodes?
(Anonymous) 2013-03-27 06:33 am (UTC)(link)You know what makes me sad? Eleven was actually pretty good about humans in season 5. Not as demonstrative about it as Ten, but...the entirety of 'The Lodger' or the 'never met someone who wasn't important' bit in A Christmas Carol. He only got like that when Moffat got all smug and self-satisfied with himself, which is a lot worse than Eleven just being like that naturally because...I dunno, a plausible reason could have easily been written if Moffat wanted to explore the character developing in that direction for in-character reasons rather than lazy mouthpieceing. The way it actually happens feels weird and forced and makes you aware of the author's hand in the story.
Re: Anyone excited for new Doctor Who episodes?
Re: Anyone excited for new Doctor Who episodes?
Ugh there are so many things that annoy me about the way that Eleven treats Amy (and by extension River) , especially in later episodes. The worst ones I can think of are the driving and "what do you expect, she's a woman" comment, but I know there are a lot more. And one of the reasons it's so annoying is - like you said - because the line probably comes straight from what Moffat would say vs what the Doctor would say. And not only are they things Moffat would say, but they're always negative things as well, insults about how other people aren't good enough.
And I know this goes off the topic of Ten and Eleven, but to go back further with RTD and bring up Nine... yes, Nine had his moments where he went off and berated humanity, but this was seen as a bad thing. Whenever he referred to humans as "stupid apes," usually his relationship with Rose was suffering as well, and the audience felt the tension, felt the cracks and frustration. The Doctor's anger and contempt with humanity only came after he or some other living creature had been personally hurt.
Eleven just puts people down so he can feel better and more smug about himself, even when the people in question are doing no harm whatsoever, like Amelia and her phone camera... or even in the Eleventh Hour where he insults people for taking pictures of the different colored sun. Umm, hello? THE SUN IS A DIFFERENT COLOR. Yeah, not everyone should've been stopped taking pictures (which honestly is a problem with the writer), but I don't think it's that outlandish of a reaction to have.
I mean, more RTD vs Moffat stuff, but Mickey Smith took a cellphone shot of a Slitheen being electrocuted and it eventually ended up being presented as a GOOD THING. Even though it seemed like a quick gag at first, it allowed him to efficiently communicate his current situation with the Doctor, and they all pooled their resources and were able to defeat the aliens together.
If this coming episode was done by RTD, I would imagine the solution would be something like EVERYONE GET ONLINE AND SPAM THE MONSTER FULL OF MESSAGES BECAUSE YOU LITTLE BEAUTIES CAN TYPE AT A MILE A MINUTE GOSH HUMANS ARE GREAT and everyone would come away feeling great as uplifting music plays.
HE TOTALLY WOULD. AND IT WOULD BE CHEESY AND PEOPLE WOULD FACE PALM AND WE WOULD LOVE IT ALL THE SAME. And you know, as much as I rag on Tinkerbell Jesus and the horrible ending to a magnificent trilogy, I can't really hate on its core idea, that humanity's collective power of hope and faith have the power to change the world and cause miracles, and that we achieve this through working together. I don't think Moffat's really gone down that route, even in his episodes where love saves the day, it's always a specific "chosen" person doing it like Craig or Madge. Like even though their presented as everyday people, it's always just one person saving the world at a time.
Ten was excited and happy with humanity most of the time. He had a lot of hope. It made the show excited and engaging and made you HAPPY to watch.
He really was. And maybe that's why I'm just not into the newer seasons as I used to be. I think one of my favorite scenes is in the Impossible Planet where Ten just straight out hugs the crew because they are brilliant. Does Eleven hug people that much? I can't remember whether he does, and even Google Images is giving me pictures of Ten hugging people when I type in "eleventh doctor hug."
Re: Anyone excited for new Doctor Who episodes?
Not to mention Nine grew! He starts out grumpy and disillusioned and ends up dancing with Rose and Jack and going out for chips with them and it's just... gah! You can clearly see how Ten was born out of Nine's changed and more optimistic attitude!
You just don't see the same transition between Ten and Eleven. Sure, I'm not going to deny that Ten's exit wasn't hammy as fuck, but he had a lot to be optimistic about! Eleven shouldn't have been so cynical about everything, and more importantly, the writing shouldn't have been hamming everything up (like people taking a photo of the crazy sun) to make him right.
A lot of Ten's stuff was cheesy and silly but that's what Doctor Who is all about! There was no question that he loved humans, and that made us as an audience love him. Then you look at Eleven, and I just think 'would you walk into a gas chamber without hesitation to save an older man just because?' Because Ten might have been upset about it, but there was no question that he was going in. Eleven... I can see him saying sorry and making some argument about the greater good.
Also, I think you're right - Eleven seems so awkward with humans in general, and that's just bizarre after all of the other Doctors. Nine danced, Ten sprayed love all over the place, and while I'm not as versed in the older Docs, I'm sure that they weren't the sort to act like all humans had weird cooties.
Re: Anyone excited for new Doctor Who episodes?
It's the same with Donna (although like everyone and their mom's I'm still not happy about her ending). Yes, she can be a shrill harpy at times, especially in her first episode, but her character's not about all that. Her journey is one of self-worth, that a person is never "just a temp" and has so much potential and capability of achieving great things, even if they don't realize it.
I'm still not entirely sure what Amy's arc was supposed to be. The fifth season was fine enough. We began with little Amelia and she had to "grow up." But even then, it was the Doctor with the universe saving sacrifice in the Big Bang and Amy's job was to just remember him, which - thinking back - is the first time in New Who that the Doctor's a decidedly more active role in the finale than the companion. And then don't ever get me started on the sixth season.
Also, the thing is Eleven doesn't have to be cynical. If you haven't seen Death of Doctor yet from SJA, I'd definitely recommend. It's the one time that RTD has written Eleven, and it's brilliant. Pretty much everything we've talked about with Nine and Ten's love for everything shows up in Eleven, except for he's still very much Eleven.
I'm not sure about the other Doctor, but I've seen quite of bit of Three and Four and they seemed pretty chill and open with people. And they most certainly did not have Eleven's trait of acting like a spoiled four year old whenever they were forced to stay in the same place for more than an hour.
Re: Anyone excited for new Doctor Who episodes?
(Anonymous) 2013-03-27 02:00 pm (UTC)(link)The older Doctors are often weird with humans because they're younger, and more ignorant, and less experienced, and haven't learned as much about them as the newer Doctors have. Even so, they know they're ignorant about humans. Sometimes they don't care that they're ignorant, but they don't go around being all pop-culture savvy and up to date on the latest developments and shit, yet still make pointless comments about how they understand humans sooooo much better than humans understand themselves. The whole point is that they think humans are weird because they don't understand them yet.
OTOH, in light of Nine and Ten's attitude towards humans, there's just no real reason for Eleven to have those traits you've mentioned. It doesn't make sense, and nothing happened to make him that way. It's not like Ten was murdered by bloodthirsty humans who let their own stupidity and selfishness get the best of them and betrayed him. Nor did anything else happen that you can point to and say "oh, look, there it is" and know that it made Eleven cynical.
I don't mind Eleven being cynical and disparaging on principle, I can think of plenty of reasons that he could have developed into that, but I do mind the fact that even though it makes no sense for him to be like that, his behavior is usually backed up by the story and therefore the message is "humans suck, only a few smart guys who are inherently better than all of you can save the day, get out of the way, god damn why are you always making the poor Doctor's life so difficult by getting attacked when he knows so much better than you".
None of the stuff like Ten grousing at UNIT for most of a two-parter, only for them to prove him wrong in the end by coming up with their own ideas and for him to be delighted at being proven wrong. Or all the geniuses just walking out on Rattigan in disgust when he tries to convince them to come with him and let the earth suffocate. Or the Doctor pinning his entire big rescue plan on his belief that the petri dish clones on New Earth would choose to de-infect everyone else of their own free will.
I disagree about Eleven not walking into a gas chamber for Wilf though. Whatever else, he's always willing to sacrifice himself for other people. And to be fair, he'd probably be a lot less bitchy about it than Ten was even given the same emotional circumstances. But I don't think he'd tell Wilf that it was his honor to die for him, because why would it be an honor for him? He never gives any indication of feeling honored to help other people. He does it because his conscience wouldn't let him do otherwise. He'd do it because that's the kind of thing the Doctor does, even though Moffat never bothers to show us how he feels about it, because feelings aren't important, apparently.