[ SECRET POST #2286 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2286 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #327.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

You don't need the Supreme Court to have fictional characters get married or in a civil partnership, though. You can write that in, even if you have to handwave it.

Liking m/m pairings does not make a person an ally automatically. Actually doing something to support queer people (beyond getting behing whatever viral things the HRC or GLADD are trying to promote) is.

[ill_omened]

I would bet the people who like m/m pairings, and those who support or would vote in favour of gay marriage and other equality focused legislation whilst taking a positive cultural approach would be pretty much a one to one correlation.

Which in and of itself is something to appreciate, and makes you an 'ally'.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, not a one to one. Probably more of a squares and rectangles sort of thing, you know, all x are y but not all y are x.

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, I've seen plenty of stupid yaoi fangirls who love their idealized doujins and fanfic but go "ewww" over actual gay men in real life, or hate lesbians. Same is true with straight dudes who only like "hot" lesbians but not the average ones, or love lesbians but get freaked out and disgusted thinking about gay guys.

This isn't to say most people are like that, but being a slash fan definitely doesn't make you an ally. There's plenty of straight people out there who are perfectly content to fantasize about or objectify us without doing anything for us.

[(Anonymous)]

No, a person's preferences in pairings really doesn't have any pairing on their political beliefs. Personally, I've run across plenty of yaoi fangirls who vehemently think gay marriage is wrong.

Also, it could be me, but I find it just a tad insulting for someone to, basically, say 'I only care about your rights so my ~fictional OTP~ can get married without handwaving!'

[(Anonymous)]

I think there are a lot of people who ship slash pairings who are on board with marriage equality and equal rights. However, I've also seen way, WAY too many yaoi and yuri fans who like to fetishize homosexuality and really are not supportive of rl gay rights at all. They don't care about the actual people and some of them straight up think queer people irl are gross, but they think that two men or two women together is hot in a fictional context.

So, yeah. There may be a fairly strong correlation, but one to one it is most definitely not.

[(Anonymous)]

except no. I cannot count how many straight girl m/m shippers I've run into who don't support gay marriage or doesn't support lesbians.

being an ally is hell of a lot more. would you like a cookie?

[ill_omened]

To the assembled, too many responses to reply individually.

I have literally never seen this outside like two examples of religious nutjobs with all kinds of personal issues. I'm not saying it's not true or something that happens, but I'd be very surprised to see they made up any kind of meaningful percentage. Actually I'd be curious now for some kind of study on this.

To you specifically anon, care to expand on your point? I think I get what you're saying, but would like to be absolutely sure before I jump down your throat.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT, but I think it's something that I notice more and that pings my radar specifically as a queer woman. I've seen a fair number of straight women in fandom who ship m/m couples but are seriously prejudiced against lesbians or bisexual women and can even be hostile toward them, or have issues with queer people of any gender outside of the realm of fiction. Just because someone thinks two dudes together is hot doesn't mean that they're going to support queer rights or necessarily see actual queer people as more than just fap fodder. If that were the case, I think we'd see more straight men who watch f/f porn supporting queer rights (there are some out there, I'm sure, but I don't think anyone would say there aren't a fair amount who just think two chicks together are hot and don't give a shit about actual queer women). I don't think the people who fetishize homosexuality and have a disconnect between support of queerness in fiction vs real life are the majority of fandom, but I don't think they're a negligible percentage, either.

[ill_omened]

The lesbian fetishisation by straight men is just part of a patriarchal expression of culture, whereas the balance with women fetishising gay men isn't quite as imbalanced (and the cultural forces at play are far more complicated).

Plus one is acceptable and considered the norm, whilst the other is rarely remarked upon by the mainstream at best, and at worst seen as deviant.

[(Anonymous)]

None of which means that fetishization of male homosexuality doesn't exist or isn't prevalent in certain subsets of fandom. It may not be as accepted by society as a whole, but it is the norm (or at the very least, widely accepted or popular) in a number of fandom cultures. Straight women in fandom who ship slash couples and don't give a crap about lesbians, bisexual women, trans people, or even real-life gay men, aside from their use as a "sassy gay friend", exist and they aren't the rare unicorn that you seem to think they are.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

There are a lot of yaoi fangirls who, if the topic of lesbians come up, go on and on about how it's 'gross' and 'wrong' [amongst other things], and the majority that I've dealt with? Not religious. Actually, most of the people I've run across in fandom as a whole aren't religious including the groups being mentioned here.

[(Anonymous)]

It's common all right, it's very common. I used to watch some of the conservative coms and there are a lot of m/m writers and fans there who are completely against equal marriage.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, if it was a conservative comm, it stands to reason the number of people opposed would be higher. They're called conservative for a reason. But that still doesn't mean it's a prevailing opinion among all groups.

I think Ill_omened was asking for more concrete statistics rather than anecdata.

[(Anonymous)]

I've told this story on fandomsecrets before, but I knew several such girls. One in particular was a friend of mine through high school and part of college, who traded yaoi manga and fanfics and fanart with me regularly, but who was not-so-subtly trying to "fix" me by bringing me to her church youth group once she found out I was actually gay and not just a guy who happened to like yaoi.

It's also worth considering that even if these fans are in favor of gay causes, some of them think they're an "ally" just for reblogging a rainbow flag or changing their icons. I've met several self-proclaimed "pro-gay" fangirls who said voting was a waste of time. The word "ally" is so watered down by these people it's not even worth anything anymore.

[vongroovy]

Yeah, like everyone else is saying, what someone likes in fiction doesn't necessarily translate to real life. I know a woman who pretty much reads nothing but yaoi manga, but firmly believes that actual gay men are just going through a phase and will eventually settle down with women. She was really upset when my friend, who she has always known is gay, got a serious boyfriend.

[(Anonymous)]

I came on this thread to say something related, but then I saw this comment and isfhswihfw sers? How can anyone see that as a phase?

[(Anonymous)]

Liking m/m pairings does not make a person an ally automatically. Actually doing something to support queer people (beyond getting behing whatever viral things the HRC or GLADD are trying to promote) is.

IDK, I'm proud to call people who may not participate in activism but are still decent people who would never support issues that are harmful to me an ally.

Basically, I don't think you have to be an activist to be an ally, and insisting that you do seems to be more about Social Justice Street Cred than anything else.

[inkdust]

This is a good point. There IS a difference between ally and activist.

[(Anonymous)]

Some things are better not done at all than done badly. You should not attempt such things unless you are really fucking sure you can do it right.

[(Anonymous)]

This, goddamn.

[(Anonymous)]

...You know, I was really expecting someone to disagree with me. That statement accurately describes my usual policy, but I'm a coward too afraid of screwing up to try to make a difference.

[(Anonymous)]

In the instance as described in this secret, yes. The fact that the person took time out of their own life to carry a sign counts in their favor, but what is on the sign doesn't lend any credibility to their cause.