fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2302 ]

[ SECRET POST #2302 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2302 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 065 secrets from Secret Submission Post #329.
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Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
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I'm in an argument over the preoccupation with rape. I say there is one, I give a couple examples that I know of but the other side says "there is no rape in either show or book, you're the one who's preoccupied with rape"

I need to drop some serious truthbombs because what he's saying is in direct opposition to reality, but I quit reading and watching for a lot of reasons so I don't have a full catalog of every instance of rape, implied rape, threat of rape or discussion of rape. Can someone who's seen all of either help me out here?

Edited 2013-04-22 23:14 (UTC)

rough memory but

the mobs attack Joffrey and the kingsguard in King's Landing, Sansa gets separated from them and chased by a bunch of dudes who look like they're about to rape her before Sandor Clegane I think shows up.

It's talked about in the book of the possibility of Brienne being raped by hers/Jaime's captors. In the show last night he talks them out of doing so.

In both: Daenerys stops her khalasar from raping women in a village they're sacking (or whatever). Also, her first time with Drogo is seen by a lot of people as rape. (I like to cling to the book version, which was way more consensual.)

Also in both, I don't know if Craster rapes his wives (daughters) but I wouldn't be surprised. And there's other implied rape, but I forget every instance tbh.

Thank you, this is very helpful.

IDK, I prefer Dany/Drogo in the books as well but it's still pretty much rape. What he does to her after their wedding night is definitely rape.

Also, I just remembered that I'm pretty sure in the books the Night's Watch rebels rape Craster's daughterwives after they kill Craster.

on their wedding night or after? if on the wedding night then maybe I need to read it again. what it seemed like was she didn't really WANT to, but in the end she was willing. afterwards when he just comes into their tent drunk at night - yeah that was always rape-y.

yeah that (Craster's wives) happened in the books, and in the show last night. you don't see much of it but it's pretty obvious it's happening/will happen. there's just so much other shit happening at the same time is all.

After their wedding night it's pretty unambiguously rape. On their wedding night, in the book, it's a pretty gray area. She is ultimately willing and I personally like that scene a lot, but there is the fact that she was sold to the guy and she has absolutely no ability to actually say no, even if she ultimately does say yes.

Martin seems to have a thing with Brienne being threatened with rape. When the knights in Renly's train start up their betting pool, with the winner being the one who finally gets Brienne into bed, Lord Randyll Tarly puts a stop to it because, he says, it was "only a matter of time before one of them claimed his prize by force"--but he blames Brienne, as if she incited them. Later, in Maidenpool, Tarly tells her that if she won't go home to Tarth, she has only herself to blame when she is raped. Shagwell threatens to rape her (before she kills him), and Rorge does the same. And that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Lollys Stokeworth was gangraped during the mob attack in the second book. I remember they found her walking along Flea Bottom naked after the fact. She was presumed to have been taken by at least 50 men. If they don't believe that, she eventually gives birth to a bastard with the last name Tanner. As in the tanning shop where it all happened.

That's a good one, thank you!

I think one girl at Harrenhal (Pia I think) is stated to have been raped by soldiers.
She was also sent to Jaime Lannister to "warm up his bed" (before she was raped I believe) though he declines the offer.

IIRC, some of this happens after Roose Bolton takes over Harrenhal, and one of the kitchen women (Annabel?) points out Pia to Arya and tells her that when the Lannisters come back and drive Bolton out, they'll do the same to her. And that she (Annabel) will have a go, with a broomstick.

This is spoilery as shit but in book three it's also revealed that Tysha (Tyrion's wife) wasn't a whore and was in fact raped by all of Tywin's men who had sex with her and Tyrion himself. Yes, I understand there's an argument to be made that she would have been raped even if she had been a whore, but that's not the way the book presents it. It's rape either way, anyway.

I hope you don't mind but I used your answer verbatim. Thanks :)

No problem. I forgot to mention it but IDK if he's current with book five, there's a major rape storyline in that book.

Here's the thread in question:

http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128127&p=2183171&viewfull=1#post2183171

I'll admit, I don't really disagree with the basic point that I think (some of) the rape scenes are part of the larger "realism" framework and that I don't actually begrudge GRRM writing a fantasy history based around the War of the Roses that goes into the kinds of horrors that women of that time actually experienced. I've never really liked the "but it's fantasy!" argument because I think that's sort of missing the point: the whole idea is to apply real-world paradigms to the world of fantasy and I don't have a problem with rape being a thing in that context.

That said, those people are being giant dicks (what the fuck is "domestic rape" and why is it any different?) and I agree that there is way more and often more gratuitous rape than there needs to be. Lollys, in particular, was really awful in the books and I'm glad they cut it out of the series.

I am getting really really pissed off at that thread. What's worse is I know I'm never going to have any backup.

Do you mean this series, or fantasy as a whole? Because I'd argue that it's not the *entire* point of the fantasy genre.

As ashamed as I am to actually know what they're referring to...'Domestic rape' is a term some people use to refer to rape between spouses. It's different because some people believe that it either isn't 'really' rape because the two people involved are together, or that it's the [usually male] spouse's right to do that if the other [usually female] spouse isn't willing to 'do their duty], as fucked up as that is.

I mean the point of ASOIAF specifically.

And no, I know what it's supposed to mean, but it's a disgusting term of apologia especially in this context.

Ah.

I agree - particularly since I've had to live through 'domestic rape' it actually pisses me off quite a bit to see them dismissing it because of it.

oh man I forgot about that, that's a big one.

really not sure what the person dethtoll's arguing with, is watching or reading but there's rape everywhere pretty much.

Probably super late, but Theon nearly gets raped in season 3/episode 3, when he tries to flee from torture.

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[ SECRET POST #2302 ]

help me catalog rape in Game of Thrones/ASOIAF

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Re: help me catalog rape in Game of Thrones/ASOIAF

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Re: help me catalog rape in Game of Thrones/ASOIAF