fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2323 ]

[ SECRET POST #2323 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2323 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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actually it'd be more like hating a woman for writing from a man's perspective, since theism is extremely common and many agnostics and atheists are raised by theists and so are very familiar with religion, but

Thank you for this. I can't help but go WTF every time someone on the internet treats atheists like the majority-in-power just because the internet provides them with a safe haven to vent and share their opinions openly.

NA

Amen :P

In my everyday life I get preached at how my life is sinful because I can't hear God speak to me and on the internet I get whined at because "why can't you accept that we're the ones being persecuted here? Sure, powerful members of my religion are trying to take away your rights as a human being IRL but I'm just so sick and tired to get thrown into the same category as them! Stop complaining about my woman-hating, homo-hating holy textbook and understand that it's just metaphors for... hating... people, err. STOP OPPRESSING MEEE"

You seriously need to smack those people down with a little bit of THIS:

Matthew 23:15

New International Version (NIV)

15

(It has way more impact IRL if you get them to look it up in the very Bible they're banging. Preferably if it's a red letter edition. The words in red are literally, as in actually and truly literally, Word of God LOL.)

"Stop complaining about my woman-hating, homo-hating holy textbook and understand that it's just metaphors for... hating... people, err. STOP OPPRESSING MEEE"

I have never once heard a Christian claim that any misogynistic or homophobic content is a "metaphor" for anything. That kind of content is usually described as being a product of its time/the culture, which I believe is an accurate statement. I was raised in a Catholic community, and the general consensus here among the practitioners is that the Bible, while it may be about God's relationship with people, was written by men, so obviously it reflects human prejudice. Cultural context plays a huge role reading this kind of text.

The "metaphors" I hear about are usually in regards to God and its relationship with the world, not clear, specific laws or commands. Like how what we should get from the Adam and Eve story isn't that we were literally made from clay, but that our own choices and actions can separate us from God, for example.

And I understand that many people view the internet as a sort of "reprieve" from the real world, but keep in mind that the same goes for everyone else. While you might want to vent about how much Christians annoy you, a Christian who comes from a predominately nonreligious community might get shit irl for her beliefs (just as you do yours), and also wants to vent about how much atheists annoy her. And to be honest, I think not wanting to be lumped with bigoted people is a valid wish.

>>I have never once heard a Christian claim that any misogynistic or homophobic content is a "metaphor" for anything.<<

na

I see this shit on facebook every day:
"XY is wrong, the Bible says so. But ABC shouldn't be taken literally, it's just a metaphor." This is picking and choosing and every Christian does it. Be it for doing good or for oppressing others.

If you really want to ignore everything from your religion or holy texts that doesn't mix with your own moral code anymore, then why be part of that religion at all? Distance yourself from established religions while keeping your faith in those things that make sense to you as a moral, modern person. At least that's how I roll *shrugs*

I'm usually on the side of atheists even though I'm a believer, so maybe I'm not the best person to talk to about this subject. In my opinion, every religion is taught. Religion is regional and varies from place to place, church to church.
Why identify with something this flimsy?
"I don't want to be lumped in with the bigots but I still want to have part of their cake" is all I hear when "good and loving" religious people complain about atheists or agnostics.

“"XY is wrong, the Bible says so. But ABC shouldn't be taken literally, it's just a metaphor." This is picking and choosing and every Christian does it. Be it for doing good or for oppressing others.”

Well, yes. Part of reading any story is deciding what the author “meant” by including certain scenes, or how they are supposed to be read. Also, the Bible is not one work, but a collection of works. It is not that uncommon to have Christians side-eye certain books in the Bible that are generally considered in scholarly circles to be late additions.

“If you really want to ignore everything from your religion or holy texts that doesn't mix with your own moral code anymore, then why be part of that religion at all?”

Because it can be something deeply ingrained in your family or culture. You might practice the religion for tradition’s sake, even if you might not take the stories as literal truth. And regardless of whether or not it is factually true, religion can give you some sort of spiritual comfort. I’m one of those people that believes that God (or the higher power I call God) is with everyone, regardless of belief system (or lack of). It also just be a lot more convenient to identify with a religion, depending on where you live. And furthermore, if you have kids it provides a sort of safety net for difficult questions like what happened to Rover after he got hit by a truck.

“Distance yourself from established religions while keeping your faith in those things that make sense to you as a moral, modern person. At least that's how I roll *shrugs*”

That is my personal opinion on the matter as well.

“I'm usually on the side of atheists even though I'm a believer, so maybe I'm not the best person to talk to about this subject.”

I don’t believe the Bible is “the inerrant word of God” so I’m probably not the best person to talk to either, lol.

“ In my opinion, every religion is taught. Religion is regional and varies from place to place, church to church.”

Agreed.

“Why identify with something this flimsy? “
Tradition/family/convenience/etc.

“"I don't want to be lumped in with the bigots but I still want to have part of their cake" is all I hear when "good and loving" religious people complain about atheists or agnostics.”

I still don’t see why this is a bad thing. No one wants to be associated with homophobes/misogynists/etc. I don’t personally have a problem with the “pick and choose” religious people if they are not harming anyone.

"Why identify with something this flimsy? "

Because the particular version I was raised with still holds a lot of truths for me?

Are you from the US? Because if you are, I'm a little confused as to how you are blissfully ignorant of how much religion rules the roost here-and how things like gay marriage/birth control are still being fought for, because they are ~against god~.

My younger sister is gay. She gets hit on by men from time to time, and this is very awkward for her. One day an older man hit on her and began to stalk her down the street. She finally told him she wasn't into men-and he FOLLOWED HER TO OUR HOUSE, begging her to let him "stick his dick in her, so he could fix her" "It was ADAM AND EVE! Not Eve and another pussy!" and shit like that. There's also this obnoxious Christian woman who harasses people on the subway about religion, and then there's those nuts who harass people outside of Downtown Crossing.

I have been harassed many, many times by religious people outside-but I have never seen one atheist/agnostic person preaching on a corner or chasing me up my driveway.

"Are you from the US?"
I am; I live in the Northeast.

"Because if you are, I'm a little confused as to how you are blissfully ignorant of how much religion rules the roost here-and how things like gay marriage/birth control are still being fought for, because they are ~against god~.

What in my comment, pray tell, gave off the impression that I am ~blissfully ignorant~ about Christianity in America? I find that incredibly presumptuous and tangential; my comment was not a general statement about how American Christians use (or misuse) religion, but instead about the issue of metaphor and cultural context in the Bible, and how Christians I've met explain the discrepancies. My last paragraph addresses the notion that you don't know where the people who "whine" (as you so eloquently put it) come from. Not everyone on the internet is an American.

"My younger sister is gay...I have been harassed many, many times by religious people outside-but I have never seen one atheist/agnostic person preaching on a corner or chasing me up my driveway."

D: My heart sincerely goes out to your sister. I seriously hope she called the cops on that asshole, because no one should EVER have to feel that unsafe. And as far as the other people who you say harass others, have you contacted the police about them as well?

That being said, those obnoxious asshats are not indicative of all Christians. And I know that's a phrase you don't like hearing, but it's one that is correct. You point out the loud, extreme ones, but what about the random people you share the subway with/work with/pass on the streets? All the Christians that aren't complete nutcases? They do exist, whether you wish to acknowledge them or not.

As far as atheist "preaching" goes, the college campus I was at on had plenty of those who couldn't wait to tell believers (well, just Christians, naturally) how utterly wrong they were about everything, and how they were ~blind sheep~ and that if they read Dawkins they would ~see the light~ because if no one was religious then there would be no more wars ever and everything would be peaceful and great because religion is, of course, the root of all corruption/evil, and this would only be possible if people stopped "buying into fairy tale bullshit." Annoying as hell, but ultimately harmless.

I'm definitely not trying to say that preaching atheists are "as bad" as the preaching Christians (not by a long shot), just that you get nutcases in every group.

That man was not in any way, wise, shape or form Christian, jsyk. That kind of cheap phraseology gets thrown around by all kinds of people.

Evo-psychobabble is another favourite. Recylced pat arguments are favoured because you don't actually have to think for yourself (and no, before you leap in, that doesn't "prove" all religion is lazy and stupid, it proves that people who are lazy and stupid use lazy and stupid reasoning)

I'm in the UK, and I have known a lot of atheists laying in to religious people - inluding one obnoxiously eating a sandwich in front of a Muslim colleague during Ramadan whilst lecturing him on how his oppressive religion made him starve himself for no reason. FWIW, agnostic myself, I'd far rather spend time with him than her.

The "curing" garbage wasn't Christian, the Adam and Eve argument was, and chances are if someone in the U.S. is using the Adam and Eve argument, they are at least nominally Christian. This qualifies as being Christian in some way, shape, or form.

That man was not in any way, wise, shape or form Christian, jsyk.

You don't know that. Being a Christian doesn't magically inoculate a person against being a raging asshole. If he was talking about "Adam and Eve," that implies at least a nominal adherence to some Abrahamic religion, so unless you're trying to fob him off on the Muslims or Jews, then it's reasonable to conclude that he was probably a Christian of some sort. Don't let's No-True-Scotsman this.

Because atheists can't possibly be sexist/racist/just plain assholes? I think there's a sampling error here. Over half of the US's population call themselves "Christian", so you'll presumably run into more Christians than non-Christians, therefore you'll run into more asshole Christians than asshole non-Christians.

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[ SECRET POST #2323 ]

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