[ SECRET POST #2339 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2339 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 031 secrets from Secret Submission Post #334.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - personal attack ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with the above anon that slash and manly men aren't mutually exclusive, but I also agree with the sentiment of the secret, I think. Sometimes I get the feeling that people think mature (heterosexual) women should all like masculine men and only teenage girls like less masculine ones (or at least, the guys who are popular with teenagers are always being made fun of for not being manly enough).

And then there's the idea that it's better or more mature to like "real" gay porn instead of slash/BL. And that always does seem to feature more masculine men, from what I've seen of it.

[galerian-ash.livejournal.com]

Aw, but I'm not an anon... :(

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Hello! I think you seem to get what I was trying to express.

Of course liking BL/slash and manly men is not exclusive. It just bothers me when people thinks that boyish or slightly effeminate guys are only liked by teenage fangirls, that you're supposed to grow out of it, and "graduate" to "real men".

Even in my real life, adult relationships I have basically gotten comments about liking "nice boys", or had people openly comment on my taste in men. I even got questioned if I'm really attracted to my current boyfriend. It's borderline insulting. And it's not like my bf is flaming, or wears a tutu of whatever - but he's not exactly the epitome of an alpha male.

And comments about liking BL or m/m erotica have possible even be worse, by adults who I thought were pretty sex positive - so yeah.

Basically, I know what kind of erotica I like, I know what kind of men I fancy - I've known since I was 17, and it hasn't changed. In that sense it's frustrating that it's seen as something to grow out of. Hell, I've heard a lot of condescension towards "yaoi moms". I'm not a mom myself, but age-wise, I easily could be.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Ahh, yeah. I remember encountering this as a teenage BL/slash fan: lots and lots of "pretty boys," and this weird idea among some people (both BL/slash fans and not, or sometimes slash fans talking about "girly" animanga dudes) that the fetishism for the "pretty" ones would go away once we young lasses grew up.

Ten years later, I still kinda dig pretty boys. My tastes have expanded, for sure, but I'm still pretty averse to beards, excessive body hair, and big men. I get teased all the time for having a boyfriend who is shorter than me and very baby-faced (not to mention, he reads as "submissive" to people who think a Real Man ought to have more control over his opinionated lady). People are weird. Stereotypes are weird.

[childings.livejournal.com]

I think it sort of makes sense for teenage girls to prefer maybe not "less masculine" men but less assertive, more passive men because that's when you're first discovering and asserting your sexuality, and for straight women at least it can be scary in your younger years dating more assertive or more physically imposing men. You haven't had as much experience and you don't really know what to expect, and there's also the real fear of violence, sadly (though realistically even a "wimpy" or "sensitive" guy could rape or beat you).

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

I agree. I think it makes sense for girls to be drawn to boys/men who are attractive but not particularly sexually threatening. There are always going to be exceptions, of course. Also, it's only fair to point out that a guy doesn't need to look hyper-masculine to be tough and manly - consider the elves in the LotR movies.

Personally, I liked more boyish, less masculine guys when I was younger, and more masculine guys now. A large part of that, though, is that I like guys close to my own age and it's not that easy for a dude in his 30s to pull off the whole bishonen look. At the same time, I like slash more now than I used to (although I prefer it with relatively mature, masculine guys).

[childings.livejournal.com]

Like I said, I don't think this is universal but also not all that uncommon. That's one reason I get initially defensive of pop idols like Bieber or the Jonas Brothers (though I can't defend everything they say and believe, but that's partially because they have this annoying conservative wholesome image to uphold). The whole point they exist is so teenage girls have some outlet to express their sexuality that's acceptable, and I think that's basically what slash/yaoi is to a lot of teenage girls, which might be why some people think it's a phase most women grow out of.

[(Anonymous)]

I can see the argument for the safety appeal. As you wrote below, it is a big part of the male pop idol appeal to teenage girls. And honestly, many teenage boys are obviously going to be softer, less hairy, etc., than full grown adult men, so it may also be the familiarity of that look to teenage girls. I remember thinking men in their late twenties looked so old and weird when I was 15 or so, so finding that attractive didn't really make sense to me.

I think the observations become gross when they start to play on the Real Man tropes and ignore that real live people are attracted to very, very different things. So the stereotype of certain BL/slash fans' preferences becomes a way to perpetuate the "alpha" vs. "emasculated" dichotomy, or the "silly teenage girl" vs. "grown-up with real grown-up sexual desires" dichotomy.

[(Anonymous)]

And then there's the idea that it's better or more mature to like "real" gay porn instead of slash/BL.

I find this so hilarious. Beyond the whole graphic sex thing, there's nothing particularly mature about any of the gay porn I've come across. I'll take a well written slash fic by a skilled, smart writer over a couple of dudes and a camera any day.

And honestly, fic and 'real' porn are such vastly different things made by different types of people for such different audiences. I'd guess that age/maturity level is one of the least relevant factors in determining which a person prefers.


what the hell, android, 'slash' is a perfectly cromulent, non-dirty word, why is there a red line under it?

[(Anonymous)]

na

In my case, my "taste" changed from hypermasculine leather studs to graceful guys with soft features when I grew out of my teenage phase. If someone told me I was being childish because of that I'd just laugh in their face.

[(Anonymous)]

Pfft, I tried the 'real' gay porn. Shit's just as laughable as the 'real' straight porn.