[ SECRET POST #2339 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2339 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 031 secrets from Secret Submission Post #334.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - personal attack ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

11. http://oi43.tinypic.com/33er94x.jpg

[galerian-ash.livejournal.com]

I... don't think BL/slash and "manly men" are mutually exclusive.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I never said they were, just that liking manly men is not a natural progression of growing older or more mature.

Re: OP

[silverr]

Agreed.

I still enjoy biseinen and bidanken, and I have kids in college.

[saiika_von_maou]

Amen. Keep lovin' the slash.

[badass_tiger]

I've never come across that attitude before. ~Fandom is for all ages~ after all.

[greenvelvetcake]

~Porn is for all ages~

Uh. Wait. No. But you get my point.

[(Anonymous)]

I used to see it in some deviantart forums. Women going "personally I like ~manly~ men and bishonen are for little girls", stuff like that.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with the above anon that slash and manly men aren't mutually exclusive, but I also agree with the sentiment of the secret, I think. Sometimes I get the feeling that people think mature (heterosexual) women should all like masculine men and only teenage girls like less masculine ones (or at least, the guys who are popular with teenagers are always being made fun of for not being manly enough).

And then there's the idea that it's better or more mature to like "real" gay porn instead of slash/BL. And that always does seem to feature more masculine men, from what I've seen of it.

[galerian-ash.livejournal.com]

Aw, but I'm not an anon... :(

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Hello! I think you seem to get what I was trying to express.

Of course liking BL/slash and manly men is not exclusive. It just bothers me when people thinks that boyish or slightly effeminate guys are only liked by teenage fangirls, that you're supposed to grow out of it, and "graduate" to "real men".

Even in my real life, adult relationships I have basically gotten comments about liking "nice boys", or had people openly comment on my taste in men. I even got questioned if I'm really attracted to my current boyfriend. It's borderline insulting. And it's not like my bf is flaming, or wears a tutu of whatever - but he's not exactly the epitome of an alpha male.

And comments about liking BL or m/m erotica have possible even be worse, by adults who I thought were pretty sex positive - so yeah.

Basically, I know what kind of erotica I like, I know what kind of men I fancy - I've known since I was 17, and it hasn't changed. In that sense it's frustrating that it's seen as something to grow out of. Hell, I've heard a lot of condescension towards "yaoi moms". I'm not a mom myself, but age-wise, I easily could be.

[childings.livejournal.com]

I think it sort of makes sense for teenage girls to prefer maybe not "less masculine" men but less assertive, more passive men because that's when you're first discovering and asserting your sexuality, and for straight women at least it can be scary in your younger years dating more assertive or more physically imposing men. You haven't had as much experience and you don't really know what to expect, and there's also the real fear of violence, sadly (though realistically even a "wimpy" or "sensitive" guy could rape or beat you).

[(Anonymous)]

And then there's the idea that it's better or more mature to like "real" gay porn instead of slash/BL.

I find this so hilarious. Beyond the whole graphic sex thing, there's nothing particularly mature about any of the gay porn I've come across. I'll take a well written slash fic by a skilled, smart writer over a couple of dudes and a camera any day.

And honestly, fic and 'real' porn are such vastly different things made by different types of people for such different audiences. I'd guess that age/maturity level is one of the least relevant factors in determining which a person prefers.


what the hell, android, 'slash' is a perfectly cromulent, non-dirty word, why is there a red line under it?

[(Anonymous)]

Pfft, I tried the 'real' gay porn. Shit's just as laughable as the 'real' straight porn.

[(Anonymous)]

I know what you mean. Keep on as you are! The most important thing is that it makes us happy.

Although the further away I got from anime and manga fandoms, and the less I interacted with 'male dominated' fanspace, the less I found myself running into this attitude. Now what negativity I see ends up being aimed more at fanfic/fanart/shipping, in general.

Sometimes it's a little hilarious when I see a fandom where people are just discovering basic fandom activities though. It's look I've been transported back to 1996 and am watching people stare in wonder and disbelief at the concept of roleplay or something.

[i_paint_the_sky]

Are you sure that people who express this view aren't talking about outgrowing the rabid yaoi fangirl stage? Because I sure as hell hope that all those teenage girls with the paddles eventually grow out of that aspect of fandom, though by no means do I think they'll outgrow enjoying slash/yaoi.

[deadtree]

most rabid fans grow out of being rabid so they probably will. Most of them. The ones that don't are scary.

[childings.livejournal.com]

Meh, my taste in men changed as I aged (I guess you could say I like more masculine men now, though not overly masculine) but I don't think that's necessarily indicative of everyone, though it's not uncommon, I think. I don't really see how all the fiction or porn you enjoy necessarily reflects on what your sexual or romantic interests are like in real life. I can still enjoy pairings where one or both partners is rather feminine gender-wise but that's not what I prefer when it comes to real-life men, nor has it ever been a preference.

tl;dr I agree with you

[(Anonymous)]

I noticed that I changed my taste when moved from yaoi only to include slash too. Western male characters are "manlier" in comparison with Asian bishonen.

But I love them both! I enjoy yaoi with cute bishonen and slash with older rough guys.

The pr0n posibilities are infinite!

[(Anonymous)]

So much agreement here.

I've been liking some of the same things for many years and I'm going to like them for many years more. It's just how it is.

I also hate the whole 'growing out of thing.' Like it's expected to grow out of yaoi or fandom in general or whatnot. I'm 30+ and happily married and I still enjoy all of that.

[(Anonymous)]

I wouldn't say it's expected that one grows out of it, but it is pretty common. None of the girls I grew up with who were into slash or yaoi are into it now, nor any of my fandom or online friends. I think it's pretty common to grow out of it, but not necessarily something one should "expect"

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

I wonder how people who have tat attitude would react if the knew about how I spent a three-year period reading het, only to return to slash again.

Thing is, I didn't leave slash entirely during that time, I just couldn't read human slash. All my slash was robots.

...And now I'm reading non-human again, though this time they're very human-like (dwarves, hobbits, yeah).

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you for this secret! I've definitely encountered this sentiment and it annoys the hell out of me. I've also gotten the implication from these same folks that yuri/femmeslash is what you should graduate into. Which is a bit puzzling.

I just wish people would stop bashing each other's personal tastes.

[(Anonymous)]

Graduate into femmeslash? What rubbish. Lady-boning does not do it for me, no two ways about it. I'm not going to waste my time with a lukewarm shower.

[otakugal15]

I thought that once as well.

Now I can't even LOOK at bl/yaoi or pretty boys anymore...ick.

I'll stick to my manlier men and manly men slash.

(not joking here. it's true)

But, it's a total YMMV type thing, so who knows how you'll think in the future. *shrugs*

Some change, some don't.