fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2358 ]

[ SECRET POST #2358 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2358 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

IMO, no. Mostly because that Misandry is not a thing that exists in any tangible, institutional way. It is not a helpful concept, and imo, it's a distraction - Feminism is already combating social attitudes and practices that hurt men; it just happens to be a hierarchy of needs with an outcome that benefits everyone.

Most people tend to prop Misandry up as a representation of oppression that men face at the hands of progressive social movements and philosophies that seek egalitarian change, and act like it's oppression because "people can't take a joke anymore."

That's about it. Real issues and problems that hurt men? Already things that feminism fights against. Bullshit about how feminism only wants to place women above men and reverse the system, and it either needs to prioritize men's needs the same as its fight against sexism and rape culture? Just that: Bullshit.

Except some women do want that, do want men oppressed. Look at anon above who says they pay their women employees more than their men employees just because of their gender. And we've had lots of threads before where feminists scream for oppression of men in retaliation for inequality between the sexes. They really don't seem to see the irony in that, either.

So sure, maybe you've only encountered feminists who seek equality and maybe that's even the majority, but there is a very vocal group of feminists who only want women superiority.

Hahahahahahaha. Ha. And there are tons of men in power now that want to put women back in the kitchen. Oh, I'm sorry, then want "Women to remember their gender role to bring back the golden years of society".

Does that mean all men want that? Nope. Same goes for Feminism.

I think you missed the point. The first comment was a broad generalization that implied all feminists wanted equality. The one you replied specifically stated it was talking only about some feminists who didn't want equality. It also pointed out that there were some feminists like that who are very vocal about it. That could lead to some people believing that IS what all feminists want. They'd be wrong, but extremists of any belief or institution have a way of making others believe they are the norm.

The thing about that vocal minority though, is that they're a nebulous, unassociated group of individuals who happen to be jerks. Every group is going to have them, nobody can do much other than call them out on their bullshit, because there is no way to make them admit that what they're doing is in fact anti-feminist.

But at the end of the day, they will still ultimately be *individuals* who enact harm to other on an individual level, inside of a specific context

I overgeneralize about the positive aspects of feminism not because I believe every feminist is a saint, but because that most feminists truly do just want to make the world a better place. So I see no reason to let what evens out to a very small group act as a strawman to represent the much larger, well-intended whole.

This.

It's not like 'feminist' is a protected term. Anyone can self-label that way.

We'll have a problem if activists, campaigners, advocacy groups and writers start coming together under the term to organise against men's rights. But frankly I don't think we need to put that high on the list of impending crises. It just isn't where the energy and the work is, and I don't think it ever has been.

I'm pretty active in a lot of social groups and I can say with confidence 100% of my female friends and probably 80-90% of my male friends identify as feminists. I have never met a person who identifies as feminist and is part of this "very vocal group" that you speak of. I have seen a bunch of this type of thing on the internet in various spaces, but not once in my many many years of being a feminist and meeting other feminists and be active in a lot of feminist protests and activities have I met these people.

Not saying they don't exist, just that this very vocal group you speak of is a pretty tiny itty bitty section.

FUCK YOU MEN AREN'T FEMINISTS

Aww, I missed you, Fuck You Anon.

Men are allies.

Nope, I disagree with the notion that men can't be feminists. I understand some people believe that way but I do not.

This is an excellent comment and sums up my thoughts nicely. Well said.

Thank you!

Mostly because that Misandry is not a thing that exists in any tangible, institutional way.

I'd actually argue it does in a lot of public elementary schools. Teachers are often a lot meaner to little boys than little girls. It's leading to a small but present achievement gap in academics.

But again, is that really misandry or a result of misogyny or other institutionalized gender ideals and roles?

Does it matter to the victims? What the heck are we supposed to say to them? "Shut up, eight year old, just take your out of school suspension and remember that girls couldn't vote until 1920." The whole backfiring argument is valid but usually functions as a way to shut people up rather than further discussion.

It matters because this is a discussion on whether the concept of misandry has real tangible results in the world and I was suggesting that your example was not a tangible result from misandry.

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

chardmonster - 2013-06-18 01:15 (UTC) - Expand

Wait. Is this another too-subtle-for-me trolling conversation I'm not supposed to respond to seriously?

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

insanenoodlyguy - 2013-06-18 03:12 (UTC) - Expand

It is the result of education shifting to focus on female learning style education. It doesn't matter if it is the result of misogyny (it isn't), but it IS happening. Boys are being horribly left behind in terms of schooling.

It may be happening but it's not a good example of tangible results of misandry in the world, was my point. Which is what this thread was about.

It's almost comical the way people keep insisting that everything bad that happens to a man is due to misogyny

Have you never seen much on the theory of patriarchy and how it influences and effects both men and women in a negative way? It's not exactly anything new.

That's a fair point, but I think that it would be better to find a different term, considering just how effectively MRA's have hi-jacked this one.

Admittedly, I don't really know much about what goes on in elementary schools. Just that whenever I hear anything about public schools it sounds increasingly horrible for boys and girls. :/

What I meant to say, I guess, is that it doesn't seem like the pre-existing problems for girls have been fixed either, so just what the fuck is going on in these schools?

Now I can field this one...

insanenoodlyguy - 2013-06-18 03:15 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Now I can field this one...

(Anonymous) - 2013-06-18 03:54 (UTC) - Expand

Teachers also help little boys a lot more than little girls, if we're going there.

http://academics.hamilton.edu/government/dparis/govt375/spring97/Gender_Equity/equity/ge3.html

And I can personally attest that girls get told a shit ton that they just "aren't cut out for math/science." Fuckers. /engineer

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2358 ]

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sa

Now I can field this one...

Re: Now I can field this one...

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.