[ SECRET POST #2358 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2358 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________



13.


__________________________________________________



14.


__________________________________________________



15.


__________________________________________________



16.


__________________________________________________



17.


__________________________________________________



18.


__________________________________________________



19.


__________________________________________________



20.


__________________________________________________



21.


__________________________________________________



22.


__________________________________________________















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #336.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

Not looking for trolls, and I'd love to keep the wank to a minimum, but I do have a question about misandry, so I understand this might get... messy. Any attempts to be cool would be much appreciated.

Ok, so discussion with my partner today about feminism went on log enough that misandry came up, and I'd like to get some insight:

Is misandry a feminist problem? I don't mean a problem within feminism, I mean is it a problem that feminist should be fighting?

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[chardmonster]

Did/does your partner describe themselves as an MRA?

This is important contextually.

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

Depends on the feminist. Internet feminists are bloodthirsty wolves who want men to be subservient to women at all costs, but actual real feminists are unicorns who want equality between the sexes. So yes and no.

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[greenvelvetcake]

I believe that misandry, like misogyny, is a problem that everyone should be fighting, not just feminists.

...We can start with the fact that Chrome says "misandry" isn't a word. Hmm.

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

if you are in the camp that feminism is about equal rights for all genders, then yes, hating men is a problem that feminists should fight. I'm in that camp and I try to fight it.

It's hard because sometimes it's soooo easy to see where men fuck me over just by merit of what's dangling between their thighs, but it's not fair to judge them all the same. Or to judge at all for that matter.

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

98% of misandry is actually just results from misogyny so...sort of.

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

Depends on what you think misandry means and why the term has been coming up a lot. I've seen a lot of feminist discussion on the term itself, if it exists, why men felt the need to create an inversion of misogyny, etc. Some say it's just an extreme reaction to the challenge of privilege. Men not liking being called on their actions and striking back with the idea that feminists and women aren't looking for equality but are really looking to be superior and put down men.

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, but probably not in the way you mean. The idea of misandry is really just a result of patriarchy and misogyny. I don't think it truly exists as a separate thing or issue.

In the big general sense yeah people should all be treated equally and you should not hate on someone because of their sex or gender. But in the detail nittygritty, I have a hard time taking anyone who seriously thinks misandry is a problem seriously. Mostly I just see it used among MRA crazies.

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know. It's sort of like how white people can't claim racism, because they're in the majority, power wise. Men are in that same space, so I don't think it can be put o the same level as misogyny.

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[aubry]

I think it's the binary that pits masculinity against femininity that's the feminist problem. And I think when men are hurt by that aggressive binary, feminism is the place to look for the tools to fight back.

Unfortunately, because binary opposition is so engrained in the ways the world talks about gender, when people see minsandry they tend to think of it as the distinct, separate man-version of misogyny. It isn't. It's men falling victim to the same patriarchal crap that misogyny is all about.

Limiting ideas of masculinity are damaging. They can fuck guys up. They get people hurt. But anyone who looks at - say - the portrayal of men in adverts as idiots - and uses that as evidence that misandry is an equal or greater (but definitely distinct) problem from misogyny isn't seeing the forest for the trees. Cause if we can push forward new ideas that fight misogyny, the misandry will clear up along with it.

ymmv

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

It should be. Because a lot of things that are considered misandric also effect women and LGBT. In fact a lot of things that suck for us in society suck for everyone. Men being the assumed breadwinner and women the homemakers sucks for anyone who doesn't want to go those routes. It made sense before technology and science made life easier. Evolution is misogynist and misandric.

Buuutttt... A great number of people have done a good job of presenting the idea that discussions about misandry are just 'angry white cis men' being melodramatic.

There probably are a lot of angry guys in those discussions but to them it's not different than feminists in discussions about issues that effect them. I hate that 'first world/white people problems' and other similar memes have attempted to shame people into not expressing their discomfort. The answer to someone upset is not to say "people in other countries have it worse."

Thank you now I feel sad and guilty for being sad.

Sorry a little off topic towards the end.

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[mekkio]

I think so.

Because it often leads to a double standard in things that should not have a double standard like this story of a "Woman, 36, bears the child of a 11 year old boy". In all the version of this story, the phrase, "the woman had sex with the boy" repeats over and over again. However, never once is "rape" written. In New Zealand, a woman can not even be charged with rape if the victim is a male. However, if the roles were reverse, such as this story where the rapist is a man and the victim a 11 year old girl, the crime is called what it is, rape. It's misandry that leads the belief, a male, no matter what age, can not be a victim of rape if the rapist is a woman. Which is a horrible, outdated belief. And also leads to the wrong belief that women, no matter what power she actually holds, will always be submissive when compared to a male, even if that woman is an adult and that male is a child. This belief is anti-feminist as well as misandric.

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

No. Not it is not. Fuck you.

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

If you are in the feminist camp of "equal rights for all genders," then yes, misandry is, in a sense, a feminist problem. A lot of misandry stems from two sources: 1) misogyny, and 2) backlash against the patriarchy. That which stems from the former will be dismantled along with misogyny itself. That which stems from the latter...that's something that needs to be worked on. The man-hating from earlier-wave feminist theorists is something that modern feminism does need to combat because the goal is to raise women's status to the level of men's, not tearing men's status down to the level of women's. We're equal-rights activists, not bullies.

On a micro level, it is important for feminists to stand up against gender-based insults and discrimination, regardless of whether it's against a man or a woman (or anybody in-between). Not doing so is rather hypocritical. And the biggest way we can make change on the macro level is by dismantling casual sexism on the micro level. But don't conflate that with MRA rhetoric - men's issues do not trump women's issues. It's important that we don't ignore one in favor of the other, but we do need to understand the context of every situation we come up against.

This is Misandry

[(Anonymous)]

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

IMO, no. Mostly because that Misandry is not a thing that exists in any tangible, institutional way. It is not a helpful concept, and imo, it's a distraction - Feminism is already combating social attitudes and practices that hurt men; it just happens to be a hierarchy of needs with an outcome that benefits everyone.

Most people tend to prop Misandry up as a representation of oppression that men face at the hands of progressive social movements and philosophies that seek egalitarian change, and act like it's oppression because "people can't take a joke anymore."

That's about it. Real issues and problems that hurt men? Already things that feminism fights against. Bullshit about how feminism only wants to place women above men and reverse the system, and it either needs to prioritize men's needs the same as its fight against sexism and rape culture? Just that: Bullshit.

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a proud feminist, and a damn proud misandrist. Needless to say I find your question deeply insulting.

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

Not really? Here's the thing, the times I've seen misandry come up it's usually being thrown out there by guys who are upset with what a woman is saying [Usually the general 'Here are the problems woman are facing/still facing today type of deal] and the men are whining about how the solutions for those are ~misandry~.

That said, are there people who very much are that? Yes, but they're the minority and, frankly, it doesn't impact that lives of that many men.

http://jezebel.com/5992479/if-i-admit-that-hating-men-is-a-thing-will-you-stop-turning-it-into-a-self+fulfilling-prophecy <- Great article that addresses what your asking, that I'd recommend since it seems to cover a lot of the bases when it comes to this.

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

No. It's simply not our problem.

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

As a male, I'm just happy enough to live in a world that lets me and my kind rape, batter and abuse you women to our dark little hearts content. Compared to that, why would I care about you being mean to us? What can you women really do to stop us?

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

Misandry doesn't exist. It's just a made-up term created by a bunch of butthurt straigt cisgendered men who hate being called out on their privilege.

10/10

[insanenoodlyguy]

I DON'T GET THIS.

[(Anonymous)]

No, seriously, I don't. Misogyny is the hatred of women and misandry is the hatred/demeaning of men, yes? That's ALL it is, so therefore both would be legitimate?

It's SEXISM that places restrictions on different sexes. What I mean to say is-- a group of radical feminists hating men is definitely misandry, but it's not exactly sexist because women are hardly in a position to diminish male privilege.

In my head misogyny is just the hatred of women, but SEXISM is the actual discrimination. So saying "women are all sluts" or that they deserve to be assaulted for wearing skimpy clothing would be misogynistic but not sexist because it's an opinion, but the fact that women are less likely to advance in the corporate world isn't misogyny-- it's sexism, because THAT's socially/politically/etc discriminatory and restrictive.

Which would imply that misandry is definitely legit, but sexism against males isn't.


Or something. I just confused myself a little. Anyway, can anyone elaborate on this?
This has always gone over my head.

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

Carl Sherburne

Re: Misandry... Oh dear.

[(Anonymous)]

Gonna go out on a limb here and say it's always a problem when one person hates on another person for no other reason than because they belong to a particular group, so yeah.

It may not necessarily be a "feminist problem" per se that feminists should fight on the grounds that they're feminists. But decent people should oppose unthinking hate no matter who they are or what group they're affiliated with.