[ SECRET POST #2435 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2435 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 049 secrets from Secret Submission Post #348.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

08. http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/1405/5kam.png

[(Anonymous)]

Um...I thought that, recently, both sides had calmed down/already come to this conclusion? Or, at the very least, isn't really arguing about it anymore much anymore.

[starphotographs]

I guess this is pretty much true, yeah. If the SJW thing is assumed to be 50% promoting equality, with the remaining 50% being made up of language policing, pointless witchhunts, shit-stirring, righteous indignation, I'm-not-censoring-you-but-I-would-if-I-could, and miscellaneous pearl clutching.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think that's even really a controversial opinion? Especially on the "Hate SJW" side, I think most of the controversy for most people is focused more around thinking that SJWs are annoying unreasonable extremists than with a fundamental, basic disagreement on the issues.

[ill_omened]

I think there are some elements where you are almost always going to see some level of really heated division here.

The most obvious jumping out to me being being appropriation as a substantial or meaningful criticism, single frame of reference of the kyriarchy, and most centrally - tribal politics.

[kaijinscendre]

Social Justice ≠ Social Justice Warriors.

[sabotabby]

This.

I kind of hate the term. I've been active in IRL political activism of various sorts for over a quarter century and fighting for actual good in the world (online or off) is not the same as having Tumblr flamewars.

[(Anonymous)]

Truths.

You can be all for social justice, without being one of those labeled as SJWs and seen as...extreme.

[elephantinegrace]

Teal deer says, "Not everybody has the same idea what 'equality' is or the reasoning behind it."

Take the Selective Service, for example. Some people think that having men register when they turn 18, and not women, is sexist because it means the men have a chance of being forcibly drafted, so they want women to register, too. Others think that it would be sexist to force the women to register, because males would put themselves at risk to protect their female comrades and would rather the Service was scrapped altogether. Or gay marriage; some people think that marriage itself is a ridiculous, antiquated ritual and that an enlightened society would be free of it. Others think that it's a way to bring two sets of family and friends together to celebrate a relationship (or something like that) so everybody should have an equal shot at getting one. We can't agree on an endgame, never mind how to get there.

[(Anonymous)]

If nothing else.. we can agree on the last part. Oh Tumblr.

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't realize we were split that way?

Topics come up, and people argue about them but I don't think we have two teams who always only agree with their teammates.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't rain on the parade, OP. Presuming that somebody you disagree with is an an extremist nutjob before you even have the conversation saves so much time! Do you want us to go back to drying our clothes with a mangle too? God.

[(Anonymous)]

these days? sure

but back when fs was on lj and we got crossovers from the really extremist communities there? not so much

[(Anonymous)]

The trouble is SJWs strip everything of context and nuance in order to boil it down to as simplistic a stance as possible. Mainly because most SJWs, if they were honest, aren't in it for social justice, but for the (mild) power tripping and the mister feelgoods. In short, their stock in trade is nought but straw men.

[transcriptanon]

[Picture is a bunch of children's hands (still attached to their owners) holding up a sphere decorated as if it were the planet Earth. The hands appear to run the gamut of human skin pigmentation.]

I think the conflict on Fandom Secret between people who believe in "social justice" and people who hate "social justice" is based almost entirely around strawmen. If both sides bothered listening to each other, I suspect they'd agree on at least fifty percent of the relevant issues.

Tumblr is still a shrieking hive of insanity, though.

[glo_unit]

Since a lot of people are bringing up SJW's I'll be a little more critical of the other side. Sometimes nobody can ever bring up anything, if anyone finds something sexist, racist, or homophobic, they are a dirty SJW who wants to ruin fandom for everyone. There was a comment on in a thread that sums it up pretty well: "When did social Justice Warrior morph from meaning someone who wields Social Justice and inequality and a weapon to hurt other, to someone who calls out anything ever."

[silvereriena]

Tumblr most certainly isn't the place to go to read about social justice, it really isn't. Extremists on both sides are both so intent on holding onto their irrational hatred that I can't help but think they have more in common with each other than they'd like to admit.

I WISH TO PURSUE MARITAL RELATIONS WITH YOUR BRAIN

[nyxelestia]

Unfortunately, both sides - though especially SJWs - seem to have lost all sense of context and real-world application of online social justice principles. Not every situation is so simple as black and white. And not everyone is perfect, and we can't really expect them to be! People try - and try hard - to make things right, and the fact that they don't know the nuances of social justice and are often conceding battles to win the war effort is not something that makes them deserving of derision and disdain. But by the same token, we can't just ignore people when they point out something is BS-ist/phobic. People disagree and maybe they have a point and maybe they don't, but the answer isn't to take every person who tries to call someone out on their bullshit and vilify them for being too sensitive.

This has made talking on either side of the issue...extremely difficult.

I'm not gonna lie, I seriously considered keeping quiet about Robin Thicke's misogyny because I didn't want to be connected to the asshats who got pissed off at Macklemore because he didn't do pro-gay rights exactly the way said asshats wanted. When trying to fit as complex a situation as homophobia and gay rights into a 3-minute song, the fact that some things had to be simplified for the lyrics is okay. No one thinks Same Love is the be-all-end-all primer on gay rights. It's a fucking song (and video), not a treatsie on gay rights. *headdesk* And yet, while it seems innocuous to some people, we need to talk about the atrocity of Thicke's song and his video, about the fact this music so blatantly turns women into sex objects, and that this man has a child - a son - and has an extraordinary influence on many other sons in this world.

These two issues shouldn't be on two different sides of the spectrum. And yet, they are, and this drives me batshit crazy every time it happens.

tl;dr - I agree with you, OP, and I wish more people would understand this.

[diet_poison]

I think f!s is actually pretty much in agreement about a lot of things...

Sorry, but could someone explain...

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly what a straw man argument is? I feel like I should know this but it was never explained well in school.

[(Anonymous)]

Mostly agree but I'm just fucking sick of people pissing on tumblr as though it's some kind of united community with common beliefs and behaviours. It's a damn website with all sorts of people. I'd wager the vast majority of it is PORN, not social justice anything, reasonable or not.

Do people not understand the concept of unfollowing people?

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with a lot of Social Justice issues. I just don't agree with idiots who use important points as an exvuse to be nothing more than bullies. Strawmen exist on both sides - the SJWs have them as well. Usually, it's when they tend to dismiss any (even the valid) criticism of their madness with "white tears" and shit like that.
Fact is: A group is always measured by its loudest and most annoying people. Again, in both cases.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh so this IS a *thing*. I have someone in my share of online friends who is a SJW then, only I never realized these things had a label, or that there were people bothered by this (and with good reason!). I thought I was the only one...

Basically what he does, from morning to night, is reply (or even butt in in other people's conversation) to posts addressing like 10000000 social issues. I think it's come to a point where it's completely ridiculous honestly. (And btw, has he got any life outside the internet?)

Also, many posts usually end up with calls to white people needing to shut up because they have privilege so they just have to shut up on 99% topics and that's it. And well, sometimes I've got the urge to point out that, 'hey, I guess I'm white and privileged, you are basically insulting me indirectly 50 times a day', only of course I would never do that because hey, that would mean I'm white, privileged and an ungrateful bitch on too of that.

BUT JESUS, I feel like they want to convert me into racism with this behavior. I'd rather not, but I swear it seems like that's their goal.

[(Anonymous)]

Everyone should just listen to each other! But an entire posting platform and every idea posted there is universally "insane", because you said so. OK, OP.

[(Anonymous)]

Lord, yes it is. That sort of Tumblr crazy comes completely out of nowhere and makes me wonder why most of these people aren't doing more with their lives than playing on the Internet.