fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2441 ]

[ SECRET POST #2441 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2441 ⌋

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

In one corner you have people overreacting to dumb shit.

In the other corner you have people overreacting if you try to analyze anything in a way that might say "hey, some people are bigots."

It's really fucking annoying. At least a bunch of the SJWs might be worthwhile adults at some point after they graduate college. A lot of the anti-sjws are just plain horrible.

Edited 2013-09-08 20:31 (UTC)

hmmmm not necessarily. anti sjw has a spectrum of people, you can dislike sjw while being for social justice and disagree with how they're going about it.

sjw by definition is the extreme end, so theyre not quite the same

Yup. I am all for social justice, but haaate the "warriors". The type of people who hate some one, like seriously loathe them and refuse to see anything else, for ONE BAD COMMENT. One. ONE. Possibly made YEARS ago. Something the person has apologized for and worked to make up for. SJWs cannot abide by anyone who isn't 100% perfect. They will eat their own the second they find out they aren't spotless. It's ridiculous.

Yeah, that doesn't seem to be how it works. It appears that anyone who gives a shit about sexism or racism is going to be defined as an "extremist" because racism is over, y'know, this one black guy experienced no racism so racism is done.

That's not what anyone is saying.

SJWs will remain SJWs - loud, annoying, holier-than-thou - no matter how many degrees they earn.

Do you intend to derail your own comment? Because you managed.

You appear to be claiming some kind of objective definition of the word exists.

That kind of presumed objectivity is probably derailing your whole thought process.

This. I actually dislike SJW's because they're HARMING the causes they claim to be fighting for (some of which are, in theory, good causes).

Completely agree with this.

Pretty much every self-proclaimed anti-SJW person I have seen on tumblr is overtly racist and call feminists cunts. Whenever anyone calls them out on it, they fall back on ad hominems, insulting the person's appearance or blog or whatever.

try this person: http://special-snowflake-hall-of-fame.tumblr.com/

Yeah, that looks like a pretty shitty blog.

For the record, it used to be a lot better.

Uh, how is this any different from "all feminists are man hating lesbians because the ones I HAVE SEEN are like that!!!"?

Not all of us who dislike SJWs are like those racist people, as made obvious by this thread.

Well, okay, but a feminist isn't hurting anyone by hating men or being a lesbian.

There's a difference between disliking SJWs and writing "Anti-SJW" on your blog because those people tend to be the types that go out of their way to actively harass trans* and POC people.

You're missing the point, I was saying that assuming one thing is true of all people who say they are a thing is stupid, outside of the definition of the thing.

Assuming "feminist" = "lesbian" is stupid.
Assuming "anti-SJW" = "racist" is also stupid.

You seem weirdly defensive about this. Did somebody yell at your blog?

No, I just hate SJW who are making it worse and harder for me to try to actually talk to people about race, sexuality, and whathaveyou, and the idea that labeling myself an anti-SJW makes me racist is baffling.

An option might be to label yourself "Anti-bigotry, anti-intolerance, anti-bullying, anti-lack of compassion" etc.

imo, being against those things is what social justice was actually about before the term got pounded into oblivion.

How is hating men not harming anyone? Isn't hating other people merely for belonging to a particular demographic group just a bad thing, period?

Yeah, that comment really made me shake my head. Hating people doesn't hurt anyone...?

(Sorry this is late. I just came back from swimming and watching a movie for a class).

When a woman says she hates men, it generally doesn't mean she hates all men individually. It means she hates the patriarchy created by men. It's a form of metonymy. For instance, people say things like "Bush started the war in Iraq" or "I hate America." It wasn't just Bush, though. It also involved Congress, advisors, and a lot of other people, and people generally don't mean every individual American; they mean the concept of America.

A woman saying she's hates men (and I'm talking about cismen) isn't harmful to men because men are not oppressed for being men. Can a man be oppressed? Certainly. A gay man and a black man are examples of men who are oppressed, but they are not oppressed because they are men. They are oppressed because they are black and gay.

A woman on tumblr saying that she hates men on tumblr isn't really going to affect men in any way except give him some hurt feelings. A man's misogyny, on the other hand, has very negative real world implications for a woman such as physical and sexual assault. (Of course, men can be sexually and physically assaulted as well by women, but it does not occur nearly as often and it is not the result of systematic misandry). Men also don't have to deal with things such as slutshaming or having their reproductive rights taken away.

It's like when a queer person says they hate straight people or when a POC says they hate white people. Straight and white people are not going to be oppressed in society for being straight abd white because they're in a position of power.

I don't think I'm explaining this very well, but, yeah, hating someone who is oppressed is way worse than hating someone in a position of power because oppressed people are actually mistreated due to their gender, race, and sexual orientation because of this hatred, while unoppressed people such as a straight cis white male only really get flack on a microblogging website.

I would add to that that you don't generally see people saying these things outright going up to men, or whatever, and personally attacking them. Whereas women, gay people, POC, PWD, etc, fairly regularly get personally attacked, especially if they are talking about social justice issues. (There are exceptions (thinking of some certain communities), but as a general rule, I don't see this so much.

(Editing to clarify that I am specifically talking about statements like "I hate men", and not incidents where someone is being a bigot and gets called out for it. Two entirely different things.)

Edited ( ) 2013-09-09 04:30 (UTC)

I've heard this argument before, and I'm sorry, I just don't buy it.

If someone hates oppression, or oppressive male behavior, or the flaws in the system that enable these things, then I have no problem with them saying so. I agree! But generalizing it to "men" (or insert any other powerful or privileged group of your choice) conveys to me, whether this is the intention or not, that, if the situation were reversed, the oppressed party would behave exactly the same as their oppressors. The only difference being that they don't currently possess the clout to make their own prejudice policy. Which pretty much yanks the moral high ground right out from under them, as far as I'm concerned.

So yeah, I'm sticking with my original premise. Generalized hatred of other groups of people is bad, full stop. Hatred of bad behavior, bad systems, bad attitudes, bad policies, bad social norms--all of those are a different matter entirely.

It's the same exact vitriol trap on either side. I try to stick to the term "SJA" or social justice activist label, though I'm not sure it's working. I firmly believe that I can call out sexism without automatically lumping it in with misogyny.

There's also this weird sort of wank ouroboros that I've seen from time to time where one anti-sj person finds a parody made by another anti-sj person and starts waving it around as an example of how horrible sj is.

A while back I seriously considered started a comm dedicated to balancing these two issues out - pursuing social justice, without it descending into vitriol or language policing in either direction. I mean, we should be able to call someone bigoted or their work problematic without having to punch everyone in the face for possibly being insensitive, right?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2441 ]

Anti-sjws are often just as bad.

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My anguish in two sentences