[ SECRET POST #2442 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2442 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________
















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 045 secrets from Secret Submission Post #349.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[chardmonster]

So let me get this straight.

you as a bisexual are also taking a lot of credit for work done primarily by homosexual people. bisexuals did not redefine the concept of gender and did not reclaim queer. that was primarily the work of gay people even if bisexual people helped.

You're talking down to someone who was actually there about this shit? And you're trying to play off some kind of bullshit orientation hierarchy to do it?

You're coming off as an asshole. Largely because you're acting like an asshole.

[saku]

i'm correcting a person based on their own flawed account of queer history and their erasure of homosexual progress in these matters. if that makes me look like an asshole to you (of all people, at that) then that's great, i don't care.

[(Anonymous)]

You're correcting someone who said they were there for some of that history...

Based on what? not confronting you, not going to cast doubts. Were you there? Lets assume all parties are being truthful, what is your experience that holds the key to what really happened?

[saku]

i was born in the 80s so i've been around for a lot of queer advancement as well. it's well accounted that gay people, bi people, people of all identities played roles in this advancement. but to paint it as a solely bisexual achievement is objectively wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

But... he wasn't?

Also... born in the 80's? Are you shitting me

Oh wow.

[chardmonster]

I too was born in the eighties! You know what I am?

FUCKING YOUNG

Re: Oh wow.

[saku]

so? we're talking about 80s-90s history. someone asked if i was a part of that history. i am. you're being really dense if you can't see how my answer applied to the question.

Re: Oh wow.

[chardmonster]

You were at oldest a child in the 1980s. This is likely also true for the 1990s.

Look. I study history at the phD level. By which I mean I go into archives, go to conferences, and all that. I'm not trying to lord that over you, I'm just saying that I know the general standards of the discipline because otherwise I get yelled at.

We'd never go to you for an authoritative oral account of 1980s queer history because you're too fucking young to have experienced it in a meaningful sense.

I never thought I'd actually say this but check your damn privilege, this isn't something you can be an authority on in this context. All CB is arguing is that bisexuals were there. You're trying to erase them.

Re: Oh wow.

[saku]

you're right, i was a child in the 80s. i never marched or rioted or faced that degree of violence until later decades. i made it clear earlier that i was not speaking from personal experience for some of this history, even if i did experience it. i certainly didn't experience it in the way an adult would have. but if i have experience in the bisexual community and its accomplishments, it would make sense for my accounts to be inaccurate regarding the influence bisexual people had on the whole of the queer movement because i would be glorifying bisexual advancement without giving proper regards to the accomplishments of other queer people. saying that bisexual people redefined what it means to be queer entirely on their own is not an accurate account of history. of course i am going to hold bias. that's one reason why historical records are so important.

eta: the other person was not merely stating bisexuals were there, they are stating that they, and they alone, redefined what it means to be queer. they retook those labels solely on their own, is what i got out of that response. that is why i reminded them that gay people had just as much a role, if not more so, in the reclaiming of slurs, definitions, labels, et cetera.

Re: Oh wow.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Because it was probably at bare minimum 95 before you were involved in jack shit. And I'm gonna be it was probably more like 2000-something.

Re: Oh wow.

[saku]

well you are wrong. i'm not sure what else to tell you.

[insanenoodlyguy]

I imagine you fighting the good fight in the 80's largely consisted of this guy stomping on opressive evil fungi

[saku]

you really have no place in this discussion and it is not taking place for your amusement. i have struggled for decades over my identity and have watched others do the same. i will not push aside the accomplishment of gay people. queer history has been dictated and written by people of all queer identities.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Internal struggle does not reflect being part of a movement. You talk as if you are an authoritative voice of the movement. You are an interested party who's read some stuff and then decided he knew everything there was to know. which apparently included a whole lot of negative thoughts on bisexuals.

And anybody can call anybody on bullshit. Don't matter what I like to kiss.

[saku]

i am not an authoritative voice on the movement and few people are. but my inclusion goes well beyond just ~reading some stuff and trying to meddle where i don't belong or whatever. such as it is i happen to think i have far more a place to discuss the matter than you do, for instance.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

i'm correcting a person based on their own flawed account of queer history and their erasure of homosexual progress in these matters.

Ok, you know what bisexual people did when we got token inclusion into GLB groups? We used our foot in the door for arguing for trans* inclusion. We had one of the few trans* and genderqueer-inclusive coalitions on the March on Washington, and at every step along the way we defined our support groups and activism to be inclusive of and supportive of trans* and genderqueer people and politics as well.

That's history, and you don't get to erase that in order to go off on an anti-bisexual rant.

[saku]

i'm not anti-bisexual. i'm anti-gender binary. anybody who agrees with the binary system sucks fmpov. right now we're just talking about bisexual adherence to the system though because you brought up bisexuals specifically. we can talk about a more broad approach if you'd like.

[insanenoodlyguy]

So if a boy likes playing with trucks, and a girl likes her pretty dresses and her barbies, they are inherently bad people?

[saku]

no. i would feel bad for them if they played with the toys they played with because they felt they were supposed to. crushing the gender binary isn't about reversing the binary?? it's about choice without judgment.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

It seems to me that you're fighting the wrong people in attacking bisexual people and organizations for using inclusive definitions.

[saku]

i'm not fighting you for using inclusive definitions. i am fighting the notion that all bisexual people use this definition, because that is not even close to being the case.

[chardmonster]

Which you have no proof of except the people you hang out with, who might be jerks.

[saku]

what kind of proof do you want, exactly? of course there are bisexual people who align themselves with the gender binary. i mean it's not just from my experience, though that's primarily been the basis of my opinions, which you can't really blame me for. countering a sweeping generalisation doesn't need much more.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

I think we've finally reached a point of consensus.

[chardmonster]

Trust me. The last population erased in queer history is homosexuals.