[ SECRET POST #2468 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2468 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 065 secrets from Secret Submission Post #353.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[forgottenjester]

That would have been interesting. Then the entire next movie is about figuring out how to bring people back from the dead. It's not we've don't that before either- oh wait.

Seriously you just can't win with that scene. They shouldn't have tried to put it in at all.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, it was just a bad idea putting it in, I think. I don't see any way for it to be better than the original - at best it's still going to be derivative, and at worst it's going to be embarrassing. And it's coming at a moment that's supposed to be the emotional climax of the entire movie. And the execution wasn't great either - not to be the person who says they did it better in the original, but they did it better in the original.

[forgottenjester]

I agree. You took the words out of my mouth. But then, I didn't like the entire movie and thought it was just a bunch of lazy, lazy writing so I'm very biased.

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't like the entire movie and thought it was just a bunch of lazy, lazy writing so I'm very biased.

Not necessarily disagreeing! So maybe we're just both biased. Oh well.

[forgottenjester]

We're the biased brigade.

(Because I have a serious thing for alliteration.)

[abharding]

Same here.

[nyxelestia]

The entire movie was a bad idea. Out of all the things they could have done, why choose to rehash that movie? Why choose to rehash the movies at all? You already have a wildly different universe and history to work in - why do the same story over again?

[(Anonymous)]

I love alternate realities and timelines, so I actually liked that they did a story about what happened with Khan in the new timeline versus how it happened in the original so you can see how it's different. The problem with coming up with anything truly original is that the franchise is so expansive that pretty much everything's been done (including a number of alternate realities) and the timeline change wasn't all that radical. Now if the first movie had the Federation becoming evil or being wiped out entirely, you could go in a radically different direction. Otherwise, you're left with depicting the little changes (as with Khan) or visiting yet another planet of hats.

[sootyowl]

Seriously you just can't win with that scene. They shouldn't have tried to put it in at all.

This. Spock dying for Kirk/the crew is an immortalized scene in media for a reason.

(Tbh they shouldn't have tried to remake the Wrath of Khan at all.)

[forgottenjester]

(Tbh they shouldn't have tried to remake the Wrath of Khan at all.)

That pretty much sums up my feelings on the entire movie.

[(Anonymous)]

Wait, what about the new Khan?
The movie is a bit logically challenged, but it's fast paced and has Cumberbatch in it.

[forgottenjester]

Um, fast paced doesn't automatically make it good and I was against Cumberbatch playing this role in particular. (Besides, we were talking about the whole movie Wrath of Khan, not just Khan himself.)

Plus, I'm one of those people where story is the most important thing. If you don't have that I'm probably not going to like your movie.

But to cut my points very, very short I will say that I felt making Wrath of Khan II (Into Darkness) was incredibly clumsy, lazy, and sometimes downright insulting writing. I found no redeeming parts in that script.

[(Anonymous)]

an interesting perspective. I wonder would you like ST Into Darkness if it had a better script but used the same basic plot? Did you like the first Reboot?

I'm a TOS fan and didn't hate the movie although they do have writing problems, yeah.

[forgottenjester]

I liked the first reboot movie. It wasn't perfect but I liked it. I suppose I would like the second movie if it was better written and it had the same basic plot. If by basic plot you mean, you know, "Starfleet has been doing unsavory things in order to be a bigger powerhouse. One of these things is now biting them in the butt and has gone rogue. They try to cover it up. The Enterprise team not only uncovers the truth but beats the rogue and the corrupt officials." That's pretty solid.

The next part is me explaining a bit better my opinion on the movie. It is negative so ignore it if you don't want to read that kind of thing.

In all honesty I think I would have the same opinion even if I had never watched TOS because I just really didn't like the writing. I didn't understand why they even bothered having some scenes. I didn't understand where the relationship progression between all the characters had come from. I didn't like how they story-wise treated women or people who aren't white. I felt the "moral of the story" was both tacked on and ham-fisted. The fact that I had seen the movies it rips whole ideas and scenes from only meant I had another gripe on top of all the others.

I thought this opinion wasn't very rare for people who didn't like the movie, however. But maybe I'm mistaken.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree, there were quite a few unnecessary scenes! I'm kinda indifferent about the relationship aspect, as I assume a lot have happened since the 1st movie.

People on my friend-list mostly liked the movie. They noticed graphics and good actors. On the flip side, they didn't care for revenge, violence and overall message inconsistent with TOS.

Plot holes and how they treated women are two main things I disliked about STID. By plot holes I mean the all-curring blood and its consequences for human medicine, also the lack of orbital security which should have stopped Enterprise before she fell on Earth, the whole Chekhov is an engineer business... It just isn't convincing. I 'm starting to rant, so stopping here.

[forgottenjester]

Hmm, I would like to assume that too but to not see any reason for that growth at all seems... like bad writing to me. I don't know. I suppose more of an allusion to previous time together would be nice. But in all honestly, I think they just kept being forced into an emotional state they weren't at yet and so it felt jumpy and awkward.

Hmm, that is a problem too.

Aw, you didn't like the blood? Because that's the point I started giggling in the theater. Yeah, I wondered about those two things too. They just didn't make sense. It's like the more you think about the movie the more cracks you find.

It's okay. I don't mind ranting.

[(Anonymous)]

They really didn't remake it, though! All it really takes from WoK is the character of Khan and the one iconic moment. If you look at the plot, it's way closer to Undiscovered Country than to Wrath of Khan (although not close enough that I'd necessarily call it a remake of TUC).

Which in some ways just makes it worse that they took that scene and tried to jam it in there.

[sootyowl]

You're right it wasn't a remake per say, which reinforces that they shouldn't have used Khan as the big bag at all. It doesn't make sense that Khan was in the reboot.

Which in some ways just makes it worse that they took that scene and tried to jam it in there.

IA. They just wanted to create the movie magic of the past so they shoehorned that scene in there. The only reason I bought it a bit was because I like Pine and Quinto as Kirk and Spock. The writing was terrible for Into Darkness.

[(Anonymous)]

It's a remake, and it's a rip-off. Deal with it.

[(Anonymous)]

Man, this comment is really confusing me right now. Why are you telling me to deal with it? Do you think I have some kind of emotional investment on the question of whether it's a remake? Why would I? I just don't think it's actually that close to Wrath of Khan.

I kind of feel like you might be reading my post as a defense of STID? It's really not. I didn't really like the movie. I just think it's derivative of one movie and also stole something from another movie, instead of thinking it's a ripoff of one movie. That's not really to its credit.

[(Anonymous)]

It really is a remake, and it's a rip-off. Deal with it.

[abharding]

When a friend asked me to describe the film (without spoiling it) I said they took components of two of the Classic Trek movies and shook well. (And the result was a bit of mess.)

I said up thread - if they wanted to have a tribute scene it would have been much better to use the last scene form Amok Time. A delighted "Jim!!!" would have worked so much better than what we got.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah but nobody recognizes that except Trek nerds who are going to see the movie no matter what (or not see it no matter what) so they'd never use it.

You're right, though, it would have been way better.