fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2502 ]

[ SECRET POST #2502 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2502 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

14. [SPOILERS for Battlestar Galactica 2003]

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15. [SPOILERS for the Snowpiercer]

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16. [SPOILERS for Gravity]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #357.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 - pretty sure these are ancient repeats ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

He was being a dick after she had a reasonable argument in her favor: he can't actually always be counted upon to come and do what he said he would do, which was be humanity's protector in time of urgent crisis.

As for the Ninth doctor and the nebula, the sense I got was that he wasn't being so much deliberately cruel as just not in touch with basic human connection; didn't Rose give him what for on that, anyway?

This. The ship full of thousands of beings she slaughtered had intended to conquer her planet and enslave her species.

I won't judge her for deciding the way the Doctor handled the situation was not sufficient.

The Doctor had brokered terms. When the Sycorax broke them he got a free trip via gravity airways to a concrete splashdown. When Harriet broke them, she got removed from power but otherwise escaped alive. She should count herself lucky. Especially since Captain Concrete had only attempted to stab the Doc in the back, Harriet was successful in her murder attempt on the retreating.

Bad form in all wars to shoot a surrendered and fleeing enemy, if for no other reason than you give the next enemy no reason to try surrendering or fleeing (Julius Caesar won a war by making sure his troops didn't have that option). The next invader may or may not be put off, but Harriet's actions ensured that if weren't put off then they were there to fight and win because they couldn't trust any offer of truce. She made Earth less safe, not more.

The thing is that Earth is not a powerful enough planet (at least at the time) to be able to offer terms and make truces without the support of the Doctor. It did not have the strength and the ability to do that

Not true. The aliens of the Who-verse have always been a variable lot. Ranging from the "wipe out whole galaxies with a sneeze" all the way down to "Even UNIT in the 60s can take them" level. Plus Earth didn't have to win every battle to force a ceasefire or withdrawl; just make the other side's victory costly enough that it wouldn't be worth the lives to take, us and go somewhere else. Except that option is now no longer on the table thanks to Harriet. She sent the message that there is no testing of Earth's defenses, that if you come here then you have to win at all costs or be shot in the back as you run. In a universe with such variable levels of opposition, that is a dangerous thing to do.

As a planet, Earth isn't fighting in the age of one or two dominant super-powers. It is in the galactic equivalent of Pre-Roman tribal warfare with everyone testing all the time.

You know, I've hated, hated, hated this moment for a long time. This explanation actually resolves some of the difficulty I've had with Who. So thank you. I think I can move forward with the series now.

The Doctor had no right to broker terms on behalf of Earth without at least consulting the leading politicians and rulers.

He had the endorsement of the leader of Earth's forces. It was Harriet her fucking self, she even told the US president to back the fuck off because the spaceship was over London (and apparently the US president had agreed to do just that). Harriet had agreed to it by begging for the Doctor's help to start with.

Like it or not, the Doctor was given the right.

Wait, when did he get the endorsement of the leader of Earth's forces? Who even was the leader of Earth's forces? Didn't he spend most of the episode in his magical coma and only woke up when they were all already on the ship?

SO much this. A well-crafted rebuttal.

It is not a binding contract for Harriet though, or Earth. The Doctor is not a legal representative of humanity. He just decided that's what he wanted everyone to do, while Harriet wasn't even there.

She begged for his help, and stood literally right next to him while he did intervene. Watch the fucking episode halfwit.

Don't worry, your crush on Ten is quite safe.

And why on Earth (pun intended) would Harriet Jones be bound to the terms the Doctor negotiated? Not his planet, not his call to make.

I was pretty pissed at Ten, but I completely agree with your assessment of Harriet's actions. She had good intentions, but she made a big error.

I disagree with that; she did not need to shoot them at that point. BUT. She thought she was doing the right thing. She wasn't being vengeful; she believed she was looking out for her peoples' safety. She made a big mistake, but it had noble intentions behind it.

Ten's intentions were vengeful and his actions were pointless. =/

Except her argument wasn't reasonable. One, the threat was leaving. If you brought that same defense down to a human-to-human level in a court of law, you'd have a rough time claiming "self-defense" if you shot somebody in the back as they were leaving-- especially since they had really done no permanent damage.

Also, stopping the Sycorax from letting other alien races know that Earth was defended and aware was a terribly stupid move. As the Doctor points out, the planet was getting noisy, and could very easily have had to go through a similar experience all over again, just because of Harriet Jones. As a leader, it was a bad move.

And the next set of aliens intent on global domination now have no reason to back down if things look dicey for them, and every reason to double down the attack and break out the Godzilla level weapons in desperation because they wouldn't be able to trust in a negotiated ceasefire. Way to make Earth less safe Harriet.

What reassurance did she have that the Sycorax weren't going to come back, though? The Doctor defeated one of them in a sword fight, awesome, but it's not like she could count on that. They were an hithero unknown alien race - how is she to know how binding that whole thing was?
And as the only leader of a nation present she would sooner or later have to explain her actions to the rest of the world's governments, how would she have explained letting them go to them? "Oh, sure, they did just take a third of the world's population hostage and tried to enslave us, but see, that guy in a bathrobe won a sword figth and it's all right now, they can't come back because of honour, or something. I don't know, two hours ago we didn't even have any clue what they were saying, never mind being familiar enough with their culture to safely say whether or not they'll honour the outcome of said sword fight."

And honestly, the Doctor can't really be counted on. Remember when Nine wanted to return to Earth a day after Rose first joined him only for him to miss by a year? What when something like this happens when Earth is in danger? And at the time they didn't even have a way of contacting the Doctor, as it was Martha who left the mobile with him.

Well if they came back then she had a big ass space gun from Torchwood now online and capable of one-shotting them. A secret One-Shotting gun. A stealth Deathstar. Not a secret now though, is it. She gave up the existence a secret weapon to shoot someone already running away, d'oh! That is shitty strategy if ever there was one.

On the other hand, she shot up a big-ass spaceship. Depending on how well-known the Sycorax were, that's some badass cred right there.

"So what happened to the Sycorax anyway? Conquered any new planets?"
"They went to Earth."
"Huh. Sucks for Earth, I guess."
"No, man. You don't understand. They went to Earth, but they never came back. Not a single one of them."

And if it hadn't been for Ten I'm pretty sure that shooting up the alien threat that threatened a third of the world's population would have given her political career a nice little boost too.

You mean the Sycorax that were one step up from scavengers tooling around in one spaceship that Earth barely managed to defeat only by shooting them in the back after a negotiated truce? Well we won't make that mistake my fellow aliens, no quarter now lads its conquer or perish.

I admit I don't remember the Christmas special that well, but I thought the Sycorax were big fish? Wasn't that why the scavanger fish Santas were with them? The hostage thing with the blood hynosis wouldn't have worked with a more advanced race, yeah, but I thought the Sycorax were known for enslaving planets.

Though other races probably wouldn't know that the Sycorax were retreating. They could have looked for a better parking spot for all anyone knew, it's not like the fight was broadcasted. (I think. Now I'm not sure anymore.) Would anyone besides those that were onboard the ship even know that the Doctor had been involved?

They were a roving gang of trade slavers, not a big fish by any accounts. Raiders basically. Just slightly higher up the totem pole than the robot santas.

Since the Sycorax withdrawal looked like a withdrawal then yeah, it would probably be known. Its also hard to keep a secret in the Who-niverse too (it is bloody hard to keep it in the real one too).

Space is really, really big, though. Why would any other alien race know what the withdrawal looked like at all, considering the unlikelihood of them even looking at the one spot anyways?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2502 ]

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