Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2007-10-23 12:49 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2007-10-23 12:49 pm
[ SECRET POST #291 ]
⌈ Secret Post #291 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Posting for Shahni due to lack of computer and early due to class.
Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 105 secrets from Secret Submission Post #042.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom, [ 1 ] repeat.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Wednesday, October 24th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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The brain. She boggles.
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Person 1:[request] So write it for me, faggots!
Person 2: Uh, I think not, homophobe.
Person 3: The use of the word 'faggots', especially on the internet, doesn't necessarily represent homophobia.
Person 3 then wrote a later comment about how they were tempted to delete the comment because of Person 2's word hatred and ignorance, but left it up as an example of their (Person 2)'s stupidity.
That's paraphrased, but I was so blindsided by the exchange that I literally could not make heads or tails of it. I thought I'd been dropped in bizarro land and no one had told me. Person 3 sounded genuinely pissed, too, rather than saying something stupid for the lulz, as I'd seen them espousing the opinion that saying faggot is A-OK and it's your problem if you get offended in another community months before.
I have no idea what's so hard to understand about not using slurs. The English language has a massive amount of words, why do you have to fixate on that one? I mean, you're totally free to use it, but you can't bitch and moan when people tell you it's offensive and homophobic.
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I don't think we're in Kansas anymore.
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There's also the issue, due to internet communication being text based, that you cannot always understand the tone behind the words. The person could genuinely have an issue with homosexuals, could just be using the phrase because they're used to it, or could be doing it deliberately to get a rise out of people. In fact, for you all you know, the person could be calling you a pork offal meatball.
It's up to you how much power you give to a word, not the person attacking you. I have exactly the same attitude regarding other supposedly derogatory terms. Look at modern black culture - they've reclaimed the word "nigger" and used it for empowerment, rather than the insult/oppression it originally represented. This, in my opinion, is how language should evolve.
Also, hi. Thanks for stalking me XD
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Plus, no matter whether they're thinking about gays or not when they say "faggot," it's still a derogatory term for gay men. As long as it's still used against gay men, it will be about gay men, period. It doesn't matter if you have personally decided that the new meaning of "fag" is "a very cuddle-able puppy." The word stings members of the gay community who have been at the receiving end of very real hate, hate that manifests in part with that word, and as long as it does that you cannot claim that it has no meaning anymore. It has very, very real meaning for some of us.
Its over-usage on the internet is definitely not a case of reclamation, because I'm pretty sure most of the people throwing it around aren't gay men using it as an ironic term for affection for one another.
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Well, it used to mean pork-offal meatballs, and sometimes still does, so I don't think this is entirely true. But I do understand your point. I, myself, wouldn't actually use these words outside of an internet forum (and I don't mean chat forum) unless I was completely sure of the opinion of anyone I'm talking to who may be insulted by them. But, at the same time, I myself am not insulted by the multitude of derogatory terms referring to women or bisexuals unless I'm sure the delivery is of an insulting manner, and even then I'm more likely to laugh in their face than rise to the fight.
I wasn't saying that it was, and I'm sorry it came across that way. But at the same time, the communities on the internet that do use it the most are largely male, and as the majority of homophobia normally comes from men, surely it's a step in the right direction if these males no longer see or use the term as a specifically anti-gay insult? Perhaps that's naive or hopeful of me.
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The problem with your "nigger" comparison is that white people CAN'T use that word, online or in real life, without coming across as instantly racist because of the oppressive and derogatory history behind the Caucasian use of the word. And there's a very similar history behind the use of the word "faggot" by heterosexuals in reference to homosexuals.
The INTENDED and most prevalent connotation of that word, in my personal experience, is hurtfully homophobic, regardless of what the speaker actually means, and so I really, completely honestly can't understand why someone can just not expect a lash-back when using it. -___-"
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Yes, in real life, I would be wary of using these words unless certain of my audience's opinion, but when words I 'should' find insulting are used against me, it's up to me how much power I give them. On the internet, however, I would only expect a lash-back if I was looking for one. I would be amazed if I used the term 'faggot' in a quakenet IRC room and was suddenly lynched for my homophobia. It's perhaps naive to paint forums like livejournal, where anonymous is not the major communication method, and is a somewhat closed off corner of the internet, with the same brush, but I can see why people would make that mistake (considering how the turnover on 4chan, something awful and similar sites has only increased over the years.)
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Though 4chan and somethingawful are probably the exceptions to every PC rule ever. I think those sites come with an intuitively understood disclaimer that everything is in itself already insulting to someone's sensibilities...I don't view LJ that way though, and I've seen these words thrown around LJ quite a bit. Again, context is everything. @_@
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I agree with you, context is everything, but 4chan and somethingawful are spreading. I'm not sure how ready the rest of the internet are for them, but they're coming anyway.
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It's fine if you didn't want drama to erupt on your LJ, especially not on something so public as the kinkmeme (I'm not sure why participating in the kinkmeme is stalking you, since it was linked in so many places), but yeah, it really did look like you were some special, edgy snowflake wigging out on being called on homophobic slurs.
BTW, the debate about reclaiming nigger in the black community is still pretty active, so I don't think that some people use it has made it acceptable.
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I didn't, myself, use the term faggot, nor do I use it outside of an audience that I am certain of the reaction of (my point is not that you should use these words willy-nilly, but that you should not react to them, unless you want to give them the power the person intends.) But I did not want another 50+ comment wankfest (as there was on the bleach kink meme over exactly the same phrase) on my journal over an issue that I believed very strongly over - not the use of the word faggot, but wordhate in general. If the word used had been 'cunt', and someone had commented calling it a slur on females, I would have had exactly the same reaction - perhaps I would have had more of an acceptable stand there, being a female myself.
For the record, there was a day between my correction of the person's perception of the word use on the internet (in which I did not have a go at them, simply pointed out they may be wrong in their assumption) and my 'flipping my shit' (which I actually consider to be a pretty apathic comment, but then, as my journal's flocked, it's probably not possible for you to be able to know this about me.)
It wasn't just the kink meme, you also mentioned a similar discussion I'd had in a community several months back. The XD was meant to mean I was joking, sorry. And yes, I am a special, edgy snowflake - just not in this specific topic. I know several people who are of exactly the same opinion as me, both on the internet and in real life.
I know this, and was only using it as an example of how language should develop (imo), not that the matter has been settled, at all, but it's a step in the right direction (imo.)
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That's true. Course, as my approach to the issue is "go ahead and use them but be prepared for someone calling you out on it," I guess I found it more striking than anything, since it really looked like you were pissed at the second commenter. Not wanting drama's all fine and well, but it was also kind of off-putting to see them called ignorant. Yeah, it's your journal and you can treat commenters however you, but that was the kind of vibe I got and it really stuck in my head.
The other time I saw you comment on the subject was in
Hey, people are very srs business about accusing stalkers on the internet, how was I to know? :P