[ SECRET POST #2530 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2530 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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13. http://i.imgur.com/sXm4j5b.gif
[Doctor Who (gif)]



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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]





















14. [SPOILERS for family guy]




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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]























16. [WARNING for abuse]





















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #361.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

16. [WARNING for abuse]
http://i42.tinypic.com/35005k5.png

[(Anonymous)]

seems like people never know how far to go with John. Either he's a completely abusive asshole or a misunderstood woobie, when the truth is doubtless moderate between them.

I'm glad fandom was able to help you out despite the often virulent disagreements on this topic! :)

[(Anonymous)]

This is the thing that seems to escape so many fans. It can't be denied that John was a fairly shitty parent, but a big part of that derives from the fact that under the same circumstances (including not only their post-Azazel situation, but also his own abandonment issues with his father Henry, his unhealthy obsession with Mary that was instilled in him by angelic intervention and he could not help having, and his time in Vietnam in the Marines) ANYBODY would likely have been a shitty parent.

As Sam and Dean have both observed, the guy did the best he could and it could have been a lot worse. Not only could he have spiralled into extreme drunken abuse and made their less-than-happy childhoods a living Hell, but if he'd actually tried to settle down and raise them in some sort of normal fashion, Sam would almost certainly have wound up surrounded and influenced by Lucifer's demons much younger than he did.

To me it says a lot for John that he raised two boys (granted, with help from Bobby, God bless him) who've stood up to Heaven, Hell and all other comers, lived to tell the tale, and haven't lost their humanity in the process.

[(Anonymous)]

To me it says a lot for John that he raised two boys (granted, with help from Bobby, God bless him) who've stood up to Heaven, Hell and all other comers, lived to tell the tale, and haven't lost their humanity in the process.

I don't really watch SPN religiously (I've watched bits of the first few seasons and know enough about the rest to follow newer episodes here and there), but I love this.

[(Anonymous)]

I have mixed feelings about it, but I just don't really understand what people think he was supposed to do? I mean, considering the situation... there is virtually nothing he could've done to keep them safe and happy. Taking them out of the hunter life would've just left them vulnerable and they would've been snatched up by evil beings in about a day. I know I certainly couldn't rest in one place and try to fake a normal life with the very reasonable fear that any moment, some demon could show up at any time and kill my children or kidnap them or whatever. There's no magical answer floating around for how a "good" parent should've acted in that situation.

[(Anonymous)]

Er, what abuse?

[kaijinscendre]

If you look at the subtext you can pretty much suss out that John was abusive. I'd say he was pretty physically abusive based on subtext.

He WAS canonically emotionally abusive. Some examples:
-Leaving Dean to care for Sam while he hunted. When Sam was attacked, John blamed Dean for this. He regularly left Dean alone to take care of Sam and put A LOT of pressure on Dean (a child) to take care of his brother.
-SPOILERS for this season, he let Dean go into foster care as punishment. Dean had tried to steal some food for Sam (he lost grocery money and had no other options).
-Dean was able to recognize that John was possessed because John told Dean he was proud of him. So being proud of Dean is so out of character, he can only be possessed.
-There are more but these are the ones I remember off the top of my head

[fleshisyummy]

Yeah, he essentially forced Dean into a maternal role at a young age. Dean had to go beyond what a normal brother should have to when taking care of Sam. It's a big reason why he has such low self-esteem. His father never recognized his achievements outside of hunting and protecting Sam.

Sometimes the show kind of tries to bring up that John was a shitty father, but it quickly ends up being dismissed and not really delved into.

[essexite]

Dean's not an air plant. He stole the food to feed himself, not just Sam.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, the Winchesters didn't exactly have a normal childhood...

[(Anonymous)]

Who ever had a normal childhood?

[(Anonymous)]

You know psychological and emotional abuse counts, right? Just because someone isn't black and blue or getting their bones broken doesn't mean they're not being abused. Or do you not think dumping mommy duties on your FOUR YEAR OLD and dragging your kids around the country living out of a car and shitty motels is abusive.

How did you MISS abuse?

[(Anonymous)]

What is parentification?

[(Anonymous)]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=parentification

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Oooh. That's a damn good word! (I mean, not what it's about, but just that it exists.)

[lunabee34]

This is a great comment and I agree with you 100%. I don't think John hit his kids (or raped them, good lord, like you see in a lot of anti-John fics), and I definitely think he loved them dearly. But I think he was a terrible parent, and I consider the way he treated them to be emotionally and mentally abusive.

[tabaqui]

This. He was abusive (though i doubt physically), but he was also probably suffering from PTSD (from Vietnam and from the death of his wife) and a functional alcoholic. To pretend he was a great guy and the boys (Sam) are just whiny is stupid.

[(Anonymous)]

I could see him being physically abusive by today's standards, which are much less accepting of light physical stuff like spankings or a smack across the face, but I don't think he would actually beat his kids.

warning for abuse - Secret 16 - Supernatural

[transcriptanon]

warning for abuse

[Picture is John Winchester from the TV series "Supernatural". He is a man with tanned skin and short dark hair, and short mustache and beard looking a little beat up and tired and/or a little emotional.]

The meta on John Winchester's abuse of his sons, and the abuse apologism, and meta on that, helped me come to terms with my own parentification and emotional abuse. Thanks, Supernatural. You helped me more than therapy did.

[(Anonymous)]

well, I'm glad something good came out of this fandom, then

[littlestbirds]

That is awesome, OP. Comforting to know that some low level fandom drama helped someone, no thanks to tptb...

[khronos_keeper]

I have a lot of the same feelings as you, but from a different angle. I guess seeing the way John treated his kids, and the way Dean acted with him made me feel less alone.

The way I saw it, it wasn't abuse, but it made me feel better about the way my dad is with me and the family business.

Just another crying John hater.

[(Anonymous)]

You can't take what fandom says about a character to heart. Fandoms like SPN have a huge tendency to see what they want in the episodes vs what is really being shown. I can understand discussion of parental abuse helping you, but don't drag down a character because of your own personal issues.

Re: Just another crying John hater.

[(Anonymous)]

What about John's parenting was good then?