fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2564 ]

[ SECRET POST #2564 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2564 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 013 secrets from Secret Submission Post #366.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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No.

Criticizing Israel is not anti-Semitic. You can see someone being anti-Semitic in the thread below. But criticizing Israel's policies and thinking that they are, on balance, unjust to the Palestinians is not. No state, no organized body, no institution, no entity in this world is perfect or beyond criticism. Reasonable people can disagree on this issue and can make arguments on both sides. It's not anti-Semitic if you agree with one side. It can become anti-Semitic, and we should watch for and criticize and expunge any trace of that, but it is not anti-Semitic. Don't do this.

But OP is not criticizing Israel's policies. OP is criticizing an actress for being Israeli.

No, OP is criticizing her for being part of the military (which is responsible for a lot of the things people criticize Israel for). I don't think OP realized that every Israeli has to have some sort of military service and that it isn't actually a choice.

"I don't think OP realized that every Israeli has to have some sort of military service and that it isn't actually a choice."

Well maybe OP should do some fucking research into a topic before expressing any opinions about it.

Lol, everybody has an opinion, educated or not. I have relatives who whine and bitch about saying Merry Christmas and not Happy Holidays (omg war on Christianiteeeee!) who don't even know that other holidays exist.

It's more constructive to be educational, and not a jerk about it. Otherwise you just put people on the defensive.

I doubt OP actually cares one way or another. That's the thing about anti-Israel propaganda -- it's propaganda. It boils down an extremely complex issue into a simple black/white one. It's easy to blame Israel for everything wrong in the middle east, and be completely ignorant of the fact that Israel is surrounded by government and paragovernment bodies who actually have it in their charter that all Jews should die and Israel should be destroyed.

It's not that I 100% support Israel in everything they do, but what do you expect them to do in the face of that? Roll over and die?

And you think "almost all criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic" is an especially nuanced response?

Seriously? Seriously? You're saying it's a complex issue and shouldn't be boiled down to a black-and-white thing. Well, fine. But boiling down a complex issue to a black-and-white one is exactly what you're doing by ascribing criticism of Israel to anti-Semitism.

Not really, no.

Are there valid criticisms of Israel? Sure. I've made them myself -- and so have a lot of Jews, Israeli and otherwise. But pretty much everything most western kids parrot is derived from propaganda, because that's how propaganda works.

Okay. I don't think we're going to get anywhere on this, because it still pretty much seems to me that what you're doing here is still reducing complex issues to black-and-white. But fair enough, we disagree, that's cool. Good luck to you.

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233c - 2014-01-10 01:06 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-01-10 01:10 (UTC) - Expand

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233c - 2014-01-10 01:44 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-01-10 01:52 (UTC) - Expand

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233c - 2014-01-10 02:45 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-01-10 03:17 (UTC) - Expand

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233c - 2014-01-10 03:19 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-01-10 06:18 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-01-10 08:42 (UTC) - Expand

You are a typical blinded and brainwashed American on this issue.

So is the OP. <3

XDDDDDDD

Then educate them, oh wise anonymous person on the internet who it totally above all this.

Oh, for fuck's sake. Then you're an enlightened wise non-American, obviously.

It would take about two seconds to find out that military service is compulsory in Israel. If the OP really cared about the issue, they would know this, so they obviously don't. Which makes it hard to see the secret as anything else than anti-Semitic.

Or maybe they just don't agree that compulsory military service can be used as a justification.

That is a possibility but I fear not the most likely one.

Disagreeing with systematic oppression and displacement makes you anti-Semitic? Okay.

OP is criticizing them for being in the Israeli army, which is a step away from criticizing them for being Israeli, which is a step away from criticizing them for being Jewish. Israel is a state; the Israeli army is a political entity; the actions that OP is talking about are the political actions of that army and that state.

And 233c's post that I was replying to wasn't a specific response to OP's post; it was a general comment about "stupid privileged white western kids who bang on how Israel is the Evil Empire oppressing the Plucky Rebel Palestinians [and] buy into what's essentially anti-Semite propaganda" in general. To me, that's a complaint about fundamentally political criticisms of Israel, and I don't think it's appropriate to call those fundamental political criticisms of a state anti-Semitic.

I agree with you to an extent, but there is also some truth to 233c's comment about "stupid privilege white western kids". Like it or not, here IS a lot of anti-Israel propaganda that goes beyond simply criticizing the state and into actual anti-Semitism, and in some cases actively spreading misinformation. People should not make criticisms about things they are ignorant of. Case in point, OP's ignorance about military service being mandatory in Israel.

Sure.

But I still think, you know. Call them ignorant. Don't call them anti-Semites, unless there's evidence of that.

The problem that I have with attributing it all to anti-Semitism is that it makes it impossible to have a reasonable debate about it. You either agree with the person making the argument, or you're a bigot and an awful person.

Na

There is also an attitude that you aren't allowed to criticize Israel, at least in my western country, or else you'll be accused of being racist even if what you're saying is legitimate.

+1 very prevalent in North America.

It's extra depressing because of how many teenagers who discuss Israel casually are less than aware that Israel is mostly Jewish. (You would think this would be obvious, but apparently not always.) It's hard to accuse someone of antisemitism when they weren't aware that the group they were criticizing is Jewish.

Because Israel is relatively unique in being made for Jews rather than simply being made for purely political reasons.

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