[ SECRET POST #2591 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2591 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 046 secrets from Secret Submission Post #370.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Oh oh oh oh oh PLEASE give me examples. I love seeing how tremendously ill-informed goyim can be.

(Until it turns into a blood libel thing, that is.)

[ill_omened]

Please don't use racist terms nonny.

It's not okay to hang onto such an exclusionary cultural narrative.

[(Anonymous)]

I refuse to accept goyim as being racist. It just means "people" and it isn't meant to be derogatory, even if it often seems to be used that way. Most of the time it's used affectionately.

Feel free to argue yourselves into the ground, I will not change my mind on this.

[(Anonymous)]

I have to agree... Jews are a goy too, says so in the bible. "I will make you into a great goy" and all that

[ill_omened]

I didn't imagine you would to be honest, especially given how insular large portions of the community can be to outsiders, but surely you find it linguistically telling that so many other cultural groups don't have a specific word for 'not us'.

[ketita]

Don't most other cultures have one? 'alien' in English, gaijin, waikukin, I forget the one for Chinese...

[ill_omened]

Lao wei.

Gaijin is on point, but alien shows exactly what I mean. It's an incredibly broad term that at a strech means 'not from my nation', but nation only speaks to legal constructs. Who can be from my nation is almost anyone. It doesn't have anything like the same connotations.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree that Alien and Goy aren't really compatible- but it is more like gaijin, lao wei, guizi, farang, bule or ausländer. They can be constructed as insults- but then again, Jews are reffered to as a "goy" themselves in the bible several times. It's all about context.

[(Anonymous)]

don't worry. ill_omened is just pissy in general.

[(Anonymous)]

My Israeli friend has told me that over there it's practically a slur. It may not be racist exactly (Israel does not equal The Jews, and all that) but if you don't think it's derogatory you're just plain wrong.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Oh they knew

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, and in England "spaz" is a derogatory term, whereas in the US it is almost never used as such. Does that mean USers are no longer allowed to use that word?

[(Anonymous)]

"almost never used as such" doesn't make a derogatory term magically not derogatory. I'm pretty sure lots of kids don't mean to use "gay" in a derogatory slur against homosexuals when they use it to mean something is bad or ridiculous, but it still is.

/American who knows damn well that 'spaz' is derogatory

[riddian]

"Spaz" was always considered fairly derogatory and not a good word to use in the part of the US I've always lived in. Fairly mild and mostly used by kids in a joking way, mind you, but still insensitive, and you'd better believe the kids know it is.

[(Anonymous)]

Uh well, one just generally fucks with stuff, thinks that a defining characteristic of Judaism is mysticism, made the story of the golem of Prague all about love or someshit, and other general missing the point all over. Then there was the one with kiddush on Chanukah... Tbh I haven't found a decent one yet (that wasn't written by a Jew)

[(Anonymous)]

That sounds... slightly better-informed on Judaism than the main character in Borat. Slightly. And I say that as a person whose knowledge of Judaism comes primarily from Jewish friends, Mel Brooks movies, and Michael Chabon novels. So I'm very, very far from an expert, but... damn. I guess there's levels of ignorance I was unfamiliar with.

[(Anonymous)]

They used mysticism as a replacement word for Jew, wasn't it? That's different.

[(Anonymous)]

What.
The fact that the author came up with that in the first place is not a great sign of knowledge on their part. I'd be disinclined to trust their information.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh god, worst was that shit with the "tattoing"/scarring. I nearly threw my laptop across the room, I was so pissed off.
They basically wanted him to have a sexy scar so they decided that shitting all over the fact that scarification in Judaism is up there with NO NO STOP NO was the best way to go about it. Like, they literally had the character make up some bullshit thing about how this is ~meaningful and he's a bad Jew so whatever.
Why even bother making it a plot point if you're going to shit all over it? The issue of bodily integrity is super meaningful in Judaism because the body is a gift, they could have done something beautiful with it but no, he needs some sexeh scars amirite.
That was so fucking offensive. If you're going to use a culture, why would you ignore everything that's central to it???

[(Anonymous)]

I enjoyed that story a lot but now that you point it out, I feel a bit sick. That's terrible.

[(Anonymous)]

yeah I don't go making a shitstorm about it either but that fic does some pretty offensive stuff in terms of Judaism.
I mean, what exactly IS so Jewish about him at all? The author doesn't seem to have much of a clue, and is mostly flailing around ruining stuff.

[(Anonymous)]

OH MAN, so I actually messaged the author about this, as I am a Reformed Jew, and confronted them on the fact they essentially make a character Jewish for cheap plot drama (using a genocide rooted in real history of a social and historically persecuted minority!! the FEELS, right), as well as the tattoo, the "Mystic" bullshit, etc, and BOY did they come up with a response. An ENTIRE TUMBLR POST explaining how they have "Jewish informants" (okay) and are an anthropology student and looked at many wikipedia pages because they know lots of words related to Jewishness!!

Meanwhile, I got told privately by the author that characterizing Levi as Ashkenazi because of his... grey eyes WASN'T racist (again, o-k-a-y), and that I, a JEWISH PERSON, was clearly wrong here and they were right because they Did Their Research. I felt like trash afterwards, it was great. So polite and understanding.

(The tattoo thing DISGUSTS me. Not to mention how in one chapter Hebrew script was described as "blocky yet beautiful" or something *SHUDDERS*)

tl;dr wow I had no idea so many people shared my views on this I'm so glad

[truxillogical]

Well, this is a Catholic weighing in, but if I know my fandom folks, then my guess is that he'll celebrate Hanukkah at the exact same time anyone else is celebrating Christmas, and that if it isn't wintertime, they'll find a way to reference Hanukkah anyway. Because, well...that's the Big Holiday, isn't it? Right? You guys do that Hanukkah thing, right? (Also, there may be Awkward Yiddish.) ((please read the sarcasm that the internet is not allowing me to properly convey))


Uuf...one of the reasons I'm spending as much time doing research on the Jewish religion/culture (esp of the early 1900's) as I am on gangster history for this bio-comic. But I'm still probably gonna screw up somewhere.