fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2622 ]

[ SECRET POST #2622 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2622 ⌋

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the good news is, if they are, they might not actually care when you ask them.

Well, yes and no. Depends on the situation? I'm an Aspie, and the couple of times someone relatively strange to me asked me if I was, it was because I'd done something weird without realising. Even if you don't mind being asked, there's a bit of a 'shit, what did I do wrong?' panicky thing that can come with it. Won't apply in all circumstances though, or to all Aspies/Autistics. Luck of the draw, I guess?

Though, yes, so long as the question isn't being screamed at me or something, it won't bother me on its own merits. I am what I am, after all.

OP anon

This is kind of the situation and why I asked. I have an online friend that has just done/said a few odd things now and then and I was curious - it would also help me be more patient with his hmm, quirks, if I knew. It would definitely not be meant as an insult or a dig or anything, just as a way to help out our friendship.

But I think I shall just attempt to be patient with him regardless and not actually ask, as the consensus seems to be it would be rude to ask.

AYRT

Um. It maybe depends on your friendship, but if the things he's doing are odd in the sense of offensive or uncomfortable, it might help him to know that? It's always really embarrassing and horrible when someone points out something I'm doing, but I tend to think it's better to know so I a) know there's something concrete I'm doing that's maybe making people react funny, and b) can keep it in mind so I can try and stop.

You don't have to bring Aspergers or Autism into it, there are any number of things that can lead to people acting weird, but you can maybe just ask the next time he does something weird why he's doing it? If he doesn't know it's weird, it might help him to, and if he does know and is doing it on purpose, then maybe you might mention it anyway so he knows you're weirded out.

I don't know, maybe your circumstances are different, but generally I'd prefer honesty about these things.

As another Aspie I agree with this. I'd just mention the behavior as nothing but a behavior if it's something he's done repeatedly that makes you uncomfortable. Aspie or not, I think most people would want to know.

OP

Thank you, you and both the other Aspie anons. This is really good advice, I'll try and work it into conversation next time one of his odd behaviors presents itself. I'm just really bad at any type of confrontation and a bit paranoid about coming off as rude, so wasn't sure how to handle this.

You shouldn't need a diagnosis to be "patient with his quirks." Either you are or you aren't.

Hm, I think I'm explaining things wrong. But I'm not sure how to explain. However the other anons offer good advice.

But it's the behavior that's the issue here, not the label, right? So address the behavior.

"Hey friend, did you just say [odd thing]? Because that's not really okay."

You don't have to humiliate your friend, but friends should be able to check each other if/when something weird happens.

Okay, so, literature, tv, whatever, generally shows a person with Aspergers or Autism as having, maybe, a 'quirk', like - 'John likes to talk about the origin of names' or 'Mary knows everything there is to know about the history of shoes'. And generally it's presented as 'oh, hey, John, remember we talked about not talking about names to everyone you meet?'

But what if the thing (or things) that John or Mary like to talk about is *interesting*? Is it a big deal if you actually engage them in conversation about it? Yes, it might not be 'normal' behavior to point out how that open-toed pump is a variation on a wing-tip or whatever, but then quoting Supernatural or having an 'anti-possession' tattoo isn't exactly 'normal', either.

As an Aspie, as you say - if someone indulged or genuinely was interested in something like that, or mostly ignored or wasn't bothered by 'weird' behavior, would it be a bad thing, or a good thing, or a neutral thing for you?

I think I'm the anon you're replying to ...

Um. See, most of my 'quirks' that get commented on are less related to my knowledge base, which to be fair a lot of people, Aspie or not, can have, and more to do with the fact that I have trouble telling what's socially appropriate when, and also trouble picking up non-verbal cues about things like people being uncomfortable or stuff like that. The contents of my cyclical obsessions aren't usually the issue? I think, as you said, that lots of people have those even when they're not Aspie/Autistic. It's more that I tend to ignore people at the wrong moments, or sit funny (that took a long, long time to train myself out of), or go on about something ad nauseum long after those around me have started silently wishing I'd shut up/wishing they could strangle me.

I think the main thing of it is, I can't tell generally if people have a problem with what I'm doing right now unless they tell me. If someone doesn't mind or is interested in something I'm doing, that's awesome and they can feel free to let it ride as long as they like. I'd just like people to speak up the moment they're not interested/comfortable around me, because I have trouble telling on my own.

Usually, I'm fine with whatever people are comfortable with, it's just easier for me if they verbally point out where their boundaries are because I have trouble with non-verbal indicators. Um. If that answers your question any?

It does, in a general way, heh. I know, though, that interrupting someone and saying 'yeah, okay, shut up now' (only more politely) isn't something that i would do unless you were my friend/sibling, and that most people *won't* do for fear of offense. Or for fear of someone getting pissed off.

If i knew you enough to know that you didn't mind, though, i'd do it in a heartbeat. And you say you 'sat funny' - well, funny to *whom*? My daughter seems to spend half her life twisted up like a pretzel. Unless you mean upsidedown or with your heels behind your head, why would anyone be bothered or really care? So long as you're not sitting on *me*....

I know, though, that interrupting someone and saying 'yeah, okay, shut up now' (only more politely) isn't something that i would do unless you were my friend/sibling, and that most people *won't* do for fear of offense.

Yeah. This is why I'm half tempted a lot of the time to just open with 'I'm an Aspie, tell me if I'm starting to be annoying because I genuinely and literally cannot tell', but it's been pointed out to me that that just makes people uncomfortable all on its own.

On the bright side, I don't tend to talk to a lot of strangers (though I end up listening to a lot of them for some reason - I get more life stories in bus stops and canteens) and my family/friends know me enough to say shut up as necessary.

And you say you 'sat funny' - well, funny to *whom*? My daughter seems to spend half her life twisted up like a pretzel. Unless you mean upsidedown or with your heels behind your head, why would anyone be bothered or really care? So long as you're not sitting on *me*....

Pretzel, yes. It was also that when I was a kid I had a tendency to sit/perch anywhere and everywhere. As in, lacking proper seating I'd just plop wherever looked handy, including the floor, regardless of company or location. And sometimes in preference to proper seating, because I do tend to sit 'yoga style' or all curled up and not all chairs are good for that. It's maybe a regional thing, but people around here don't like when you do that? I don't know, I can't track trends of what's appropriate where very well. (I still do this at home, barring strange company, but home is home).

Also, when I'm overwhelmed, I tend to ball reflexively. And, um, sometimes put my hands over my ears and pull my knees to my chest. I've largely gotten over that, but I've also had cyclical depressions and severe anxiety for years, and even into college I had some bad moments of literally curling up in lecture halls because the wave of people-noises drove me wrong and I couldn't make myself stand up to get out of there.

That's a specific case, a panic behaviour, but a lot of my smaller 'weird' tics have similar origins and get commented on the same way. Apparently I move oddly in some ways, and have this tendency of not looking at people when I'm talking to them, and I can get randomly caught up in sensory input which apparently can look anything from mildly unusual to really odd to onlookers.

I do try to keep the more extreme ones to a minimum now, but sometimes I can't tell in time, or can't help it (most of the sensory ones), and some of them I'm honestly not arsed to try. Um. Excuse the language. It's kind of ... it's a bit of a balancing act between what's comfortable for me and what's going to make other people uncomfortable, and for what reasons. I'm still working on it. In my bad moments I suspect I'm going to spend my entire life doing so :(

Ah well, though. There are perks.

I find it...irritating that people get upset about being told 'hey, i have this issue, so in case it gets weird, know you can do x and it won't be a problem'. I mean, don't tell me in loving detail about your irritable bowel, but if you might go off on a ramble about the history of pens, or have a seizure? I'd rather know. It's very frustrating - and i know about 1000 times more for you - that anything that smacks of 'mental disorder' makes people act like dumbasses.

The impulse to curl in a ball in loud, public places is not just for Aspies! Heh. Actually, my niece is like that - she's probably borderline Aspergers or Autistic, she has a lot of behaviors that fall into that range, particularly rocking to self-sooth and some learning issues that make school a roller coaster (very smart, but can't write well, so timed tests are bad for her since she physically simply cannot write quickly enough. But ask the same questions aloud, including math stuff, and she's fine.). My sis-in-law spends a lot of time dealing with idiot school staff, but so far so good.

I would only look askance at floor sitting because i find most floors to be too gross to even attempt that.

Oh, hey, no worries re: language - you can even say 'fuck' if you want. :)
I'm glad there are perks, because having to wonder if walking across the room and sitting down is going to weird people out sounds exhausting. Although maybe people should just relax a little bit and stop being so knee-jerky.

It's very frustrating - and i know about 1000 times more for you - that anything that smacks of 'mental disorder' makes people act like dumbasses.

All of that, yes. If I could figure out how to frame things in a socially acceptable way, things might be easier, but, well, if I could figure out framing things socially to start with, I wouldn't have these problems at all, would I? Heh.

(very smart, but can't write well, so timed tests are bad for her since she physically simply cannot write quickly enough. But ask the same questions aloud, including math stuff, and she's fine.)

I lucked out academically because my language and spatial skill sets are very good. Words have been probably the longest-standing of my obsessions (etymology is such a thing), and I'm physically capable of writing and typing really well. Although, spoken language is a bit odd with me. I don't take accents well? I think I just tend to pronounce things the way I think they should be pronounced, rather than the way they actually are pronounced around me. Most of my language I learned by reading rather than hearing, so speaking can be a bit hit-and-miss with me.

The downside to the spatial awareness thing is that tactile and spatial sensations are two of the most likely things to catch me in a sensory fugue (also visual - light does funny things to me sometimes). I get caught up in sensations to the point of exclusion, which can be bad. (Aural sensations, on the other hand, are often just painful - too much noise is bad, and spatial/tactile can go overboard too - crowds tend to kill me from a combo of those and social anxiety).

And yes, floors can be gross. I don't sit on the gross ones, which for me primarily means sticky. I hate stickiness, in anything. Dust is fine, though.

I'm glad there are perks, because having to wonder if walking across the room and sitting down is going to weird people out sounds exhausting.

Some of it is an exercise in deliberately not caring? A case of prioritising. I try to figure out and avoid doing anything that's indecent or makes people physically uncomfortable or unsafe, but put less priority on things that'll just make them think I'm weird, because I've basically been the weird kid/weird girl all my life and after a while I just stopped caring overmuch?

But there are perks. Some of the sensory stuff, while it's got downsides in being overwhelming, is almost worth it just for the way the world feels just before you get to that point. The spatial thing, especially. I have moments where it's like I can physically feel the motion of the world, where it's like this big empty moving thing around me. And light. Sometimes the world looks so crystal clear for a while, physically speaking. It's sometimes amazing.

I also tend to think that being more logical than social occasionally helps in crisis situations. But, um. I would think that, wouldn't I? Heh.

Some of the sensory stuff, while it's got downsides in being overwhelming, is almost worth it just for the way the world feels just before you get to that point. The spatial thing, especially. I have moments where it's like I can physically feel the motion of the world, where it's like this big empty moving thing around me. And light. Sometimes the world looks so crystal clear for a while, physically speaking. It's sometimes amazing.I

It really sounds like it! :D This is probably going to sound very bad, but sometimes I wish I had Asperger's just so I could get those kinds of perks. Instead, I basically can't touch canvas or anything 'too rough' and can't file my nails if my life depended on it - I don't get fun stuff like that. :|

Logic definitely trumps sociability in times of crisis, and many other times as well. Cracked recently ran a '5 Brain Disorders That Were Actually Evolutionary Advantages' article, and this was basically how Asperger's was an advantage - in a time of foraging, hunter-gathering, etc., being able to provide for and protect someone (which autism helped with back then) tended to make up for not having social skill, and your offspring would be more likely to survive than the next person's over, who is very social but may not be as good at the providing and protecting bits. :P

Oh, i'm familiar with that - I thought the name 'Penelope' was pronounced 'Penne - lope'. I'd never heard it out loud! Same with a lot of words that i'd never heard spoken.

I'm kinda...pikcy? To me, unless it's my very own house, most floors are gross. I kinda...don't trust other people's cleaning skills. (Usually.)

Heee. Hey, whatever gets you through you day. And really - logical thinking in a crisis is good. Much better than abject panic.

I'm not even an Aspie and most of this applies to me. I can understand why one might need to sit 'properly' in formal situations (i.e. work/meetings, school, at a restaurant/cafe/public venue of some sort), but otherwise...yeah, I don't get it either, and I still pretzel up half the time (...is 'pretzel up' a word? Whatever, I'm making it a word now) and I even sleep that way as often as not. I tend to look at most basic yoga positions as "I eat/sit/sleep that way!". If I'm eating with my friends, what does it matter that I have one foot on the chair and my arm is wrapped under my knee? I'm trying to eat and read at the same time, it's comfortable and efficient! :P

Luckily, my mom did a lot of yoga and even taught some to children later on, and my dad didn't care much about it. Some family friends, though, could never quite wrap their heads around the idea that I sometimes liked to perch on the back or arms of the couch instead of just sitting ON the couch.

And yeah, non-verbal cues are a pain in the ass. I'm lucky that I have a bitchy enough personality that most people don't mind being blunt with me once I tell them so, and I managed to get enough practice over the years to learn when and how to tell that someone wasn't interested in what I was saying and I'm fine now, but that doesn't mean I don't wish people would just say so. -_- Still struggle with various physical tics, though, especially facial ones. I can keep them contained to when I'm not actively engaged with someone or facing someone, but still wish I could get rid of them completely >.< ~~and there it is again! :P~~

I tend to look at most basic yoga positions as "I eat/sit/sleep that way!".

:D I did yoga itself for the first time in college, when it was recommended to me by my disability case worker as a stress relief. And yes, most of the positions felt very familiar. The weirdest thing for me was the breathing, because I have trouble consciously trying to sync my breathing to my body's motions, but the movements and the positions were just fine. I got several comments that "you're very flexible/comfortable looking" and was tempted to answer that that's what happens when you sit/sleep this way for twenty years. Heh. (I used to sleep all sorts of weird ways, in particular, and change regularly during the night - I'm impossible to sleep next to, according to my sisters).

I managed to get enough practice over the years to learn when and how to tell that someone wasn't interested in what I was saying and I'm fine now, but that doesn't mean I don't wish people would just say so.

I'm ... working on this, I just have real trouble with facial expressions in particular, and body language as a whole. I can pick up physical distress fine (recognised a panic attack once before anyone in my class from a) personal experience and b) knowing what hyperventilation looks like), but reading interest/emotions is weirder and harder.

Life would be so much easy if people were allowed to just SAY things. *grumbles*

I remember a fitness class in which we were doing stretches, one of which was a lunge-style position where one leg is stretched out behind you and the other foot is planted in front of you so that you are leaning forward over your thigh.

At one point, the teacher told is to dip down to the side and go as low as possible, get your arm in under your front leg. Some people had already been struggle with leaning forward, some people could get their wrist around their ankle, and then there I was getting my whole shoulder in under my knee.

When asked how/why I could do that, I basically said this was how I relaxed and read books as a little kid. :P

My mother was eternally disappointed that I never had the patience for actual yoga, despite my sleeping positions apparently bordering into 'intermediate yoga levels'.

I'd be relieved if people asked me instead of just assuming I'm deliberately being obtuse. I dislike the "but you look so normal!" much more. :( That said, I agree with everything else my fellow anonymous Aspies have said.

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[ SECRET POST #2622 ]

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