[ SECRET POST #2641 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2641 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 018 secrets from Secret Submission Post #377.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[sarillia]

Oh look, another race thread with all the usual suspects.

Dismissing the argument completely because obviously the only ones who care are SJWs. People laughing at the idea of basing racial oppression on ambiguous skin colors and then going on to do the same thing from the other direction; "lol they think my tan ass is oppressed but I'm not so no one who looks like me is". Also included in the greatest hits: "lol Americans, thinking it works like it does in their country all over the world. It obviously works like it does in my country." And of course "lol tumblr" because tumblr must be the source of all specious arguments.

There are some great criticisms that are hard to take seriously because they end up going too far.

[(Anonymous)]

mte on this whole comment thread

I wonder if people are being deliberately obtuse here in their arguments...

[(Anonymous)]

Don't forget the classic, "They filmed it in this place where there weren't any white people! (And I mean like, there's no chance they chose to film it there because of that. They couldn't have chosen to film it anywhere else. They were forced to choose this one place where there just happen to be no white people!)"

[diet_poison]

...yes. this.

[(Anonymous)]

Where else should Dany's entire arc be filmed since the whole setting fits in the Mediterranean landscape?

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, the production people definitely sat down and said "hey, let's fim in Morocco so we can fuck over the locals by filming this really neato scene where Dany saves them and is all super-white and shit". No, they filmed in Morocco because it's a good location match and has a strong film production sector, thus skilled local crew for hire, and likely some financial incentives from the government to encourage inward investment. They didn't just film that one single scene there, you know. It's a long shoot for a hefty chunk of the story.

You sound paranoid, to be honest. This is some conspiracy theory stuff, thinking they chose Morocco so they could deliberately film one scene with dodgy racist overtones.

[(Anonymous)]

This. What the fuck? I've been staying out of this whole discussion, but...someone genuinely believes that they chose to film in Morocco so they could make a scene debatably racist? That's batshit.

[(Anonymous)]

Do you... really believe that the skin color of extras was the only factor determining the location of this lengthy shoot? Isn't it much likelier that the process went something like this: location unit scouted possible areas the world over and then presented a bunch of suitable ones in terms of geography, at which point studio heads weighed over factors like labor laws, availability and cost of local crew, immigration customs (how easy/hard it would be to get all of our guys into the country for the shoot and obtain work permits for them), whether the local gov would be nice enough to throw in a nice fat tax break...

You really really think that amidst this logistic nightmare, these business-minded people's main concern was, "But can we get enough brown people for this one scene"?

[(Anonymous)]

The only business this lot are ever going to get into is the non-oppressive organic vegan cupcake business, so I think the logistics of filming something on anything more complicated than their smartphone's Super 8 app is well beyond them.

[(Anonymous)]

Americans shoving their nose in a country they are an ocean away from in geography and issues is pretty irritating, yes.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe, but here are a few things that are more irritating:

1. Racism.
2. People who use "AMERICANS!!!!!!" as an excuse for their own special, superior, at-least-it's-not-American racism.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh yes, telling off Americans who think the history of slavery in Morocco is the same as the history of slavery in the USA is so much harder than cultural imperialism.

[(Anonymous)]

(DA)

No, sorry, when USA's government has more power on what's going on my country than any of the people living here I think that's a bigger issue than racism.
This is becoming more and more off topic, but please, just stop disregarding the issues many of us have with your country's political and cultural power over other countries.

[sarillia]

I'm sorry, I thought my last line made it clear that there are some kernels or good sense in a lot of these arguments but apparently that wasn't as clear as I thought. I do agree that Americans tend to apply our own history of racism to areas of the world where things are different and that should stop. But the solution isn't to replace Americancentrism with a focus on another random country. We need to look at the context that is actually relevant.

[(Anonymous)]

You're missing so many points, including the fact that no one is saying the world works like "it does in my country" but: "hey, there is more in the world than America and in some/my country things are like this".

But of course, expecting Americans on FS to admit the world is diverse, that their experiences aren't the only ones that matter and that talking about that doesn't dismiss their own, is like asking the earth to stop being a planet or something like that.

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you. It's annoying as hell.

[(Anonymous)]

You are the one making up your own conversation here that no one has participated in. You're basically saying that a white lady saving dark skinned people is not racist because... because... america? Because only America has racism? Only Americans had non-white slaves? seriously? Dark-skinned people are only disadvantaged in America?

I mean, what the hell are you trying to argue? No one has even said they are American.

[(Anonymous)]

You forgot the: "You disagree, so you must be as white as I am. Because if you are POC then why aren't you praising me for defending you, you stinky foreigner shit????"

[sarillia]

I should have spent so much more time adding disclaimers that Americancentrism really is annoying and (yes, the dreaded) problematic. I just think that too many people replace it with other arguments that are equally irrelevant. This isn't about how things work in America or Spain or Morocco.

[(Anonymous)]

No one's said that "because it works this way in my country that's the only way it works" but a lot of us are tired of being condescended to and being told we're oppressed by the white man when that's not the case. We don't need people coming in with a narrowly defined problem and telling us what our problems are, that we should feel oppressed, and getting offended on our behalf.

If we weren't tired of the amerocentric bullshit that some people spew and then turn around to call us 'white-passing' or say we've internalized something because our experiences don't square with theirs, we wouldn't be having this conversation. As it is your comment is extremely ignorant and I'm really less likely to take anything you say about oppression seriously.

[(Anonymous)]

that's nice. I'm not white and I found the scene annoying.

now what? do I get the right to an opinion too, or only GRRM worshipers?

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you for saying better than I could.

[sarillia]

I'm sorry that this is the only statement I made that even comes close to expressing that I do think that Americancentrism is bad: There are some great criticisms that are hard to take seriously because they end up going too far. It obviously wasn't enough.

I just think it's ridiculous that people are replacing an American context with another one that is equally irrelevant. People are talking about the skin tones of people in southern Europe as though that is any more relevant to GoT than America.

I don't think that anyone who brings up that the way things work in America isn't the only way racism works is being ridiculous but some people start out making that reasonable argument and then veer off into talking about their own country even though we're talking about GoT and they don't live in any of the places that this situation is inspired by.

[gabzillaz]

FS has been on par with 4chan lately when it comes to race and the "tumblr is the source of all evil!!11"

+1

[(Anonymous)]

you say it how it is