[ SECRET POST #2641 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2641 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 018 secrets from Secret Submission Post #377.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

09. http://i.imgur.com/VpE4lIA.png

[(Anonymous)]

Because American SJWs.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Because Ameiricentric SJW's assume slave means POC

[(Anonymous)]

I assumed this was more to do with casting in the show than actual racial diversity in the books.

[(Anonymous)]

Because 1.) the casting on the show and 2.) Meerenese culture is clearly based in a mix-match of cultures of poc people in our world. Valyrian culture - true, we don't see much of it, but from what he have learned, it seems to borrow far less from real cultures belonging to people of color.

In fantasy worlds, you often see more distinct lines drawn between cultures that are more distinct than cultures in our world would be at that distance. Otherwise, you would have to travel the entire fantasy world to see much diversity.

[(Anonymous)]

OP, did you see the TV show or just read the book or something? The TV show was blatant "white savior."

[(Anonymous)]

On the show it's because of the casting. In the books, well, the slaves she frees are a lot more racially diverse, some of them are white, some of them are brown or black. It still has iffy overtones if the pale, white-haired, special descendant of an ancient amazing family with ~superior~ blood saves those low-blooded slaves, a lot of whom are not white, and even those who are white aren't the same kind of "special" white as Daenerys with her Valyrian blood. I mean, just look around in Europe - most European countries have white majorities, that doesn't stop people from distinguishing between different kind of whites (e.g. discrimination against Slavic people in Western Europe etc).

Oh Tumblr

[(Anonymous)]

I love how tumblrites also like to say Europeans were the most 'bloodthirsty people in history'. It's as if they stick their fingers in their ears and go "lalalla" whenever someone brings up that non-white people had slaves in history, and brutally slaughtered their enemies, and sacrificed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, just like most other cultures did.

[(Anonymous)]

Ahhh, GRRM stans, never change.

[ginainthekingsroad]

Well the books make clear that the "Valyrian" look (fair, light hair, purple eyes) is more prominent in places close to the heart of the Freehold-- like Lys-- than places that were at the fringes of their empire, like Slavers' Bay. There, the Valyrians were colonial rulers over the Ghiscari natives.

Think of it more like there being a higher concentration of descendants of ancient Romans in medieval Italy/France/Western Europe, than in the Middle East at the same time. Despite that the Byzantines would have disagreed. :P Aegon I and the early Targaryen kings are basically the Carolingian dynasty.

[(Anonymous)]

What I don't understand is how much they miss the point of it all, unless they have only watched the show where it has ended.

Also, THEY ARE NOT BLACK PEOPLE.

[(Anonymous)]

Ok I haven't read the books but I've seen part of the show but I was looking into shit on wiki so I'm an expert.

Doesn't she get royally curbstomped a bit later? Like the whole point is she thinks she's the grand savior but she's too naive and gets her ass kicked? Or rather the asses of the people she was trying to save.

It seems like if you fail to save people then you're not a very good savior.

[sarillia]

Oh look, another race thread with all the usual suspects.

Dismissing the argument completely because obviously the only ones who care are SJWs. People laughing at the idea of basing racial oppression on ambiguous skin colors and then going on to do the same thing from the other direction; "lol they think my tan ass is oppressed but I'm not so no one who looks like me is". Also included in the greatest hits: "lol Americans, thinking it works like it does in their country all over the world. It obviously works like it does in my country." And of course "lol tumblr" because tumblr must be the source of all specious arguments.

There are some great criticisms that are hard to take seriously because they end up going too far.

[(Anonymous)]

The point is -- as with everything about GRRM's world -- the situation's not simple black and white (no pun intended) it's shades of grey. Dany sets the slaves free because she knows what it's like to be sold (by her brother!) and she's very aware that, had Drogo been a different man, her life could have been much, much worse, but she sets them free without providing them with food or shelter or with any means of earning a living, and the entire society destabilises (and it's the former slaves who suffer most)...

GRRM isn't saying 'look at this wonderful white saviour', he's saying 'look how this apparent white saviour's humane act goes horribly wrong because she doesn't think of the practicalities'.

[(Anonymous)]

My secret:

This thread basically summarizes (and validates) my image of most Game of Thrones fans. :-/

[(Anonymous)]

This so much. Like other anons have said, those slaves are Moroccans, and most of us here are white. So please stop calling us PoC.

[(Anonymous)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYqa3eAAYNI

here is the scene. Yep, how could anyone watch that and think these slaves were a different color than Danaerys. oh wait.... yep, it's pretty much cookie cutter "white savior."

[(Anonymous)]

I wonder if there is anything about the series that ASOIAF/Game of Thrones fans won't desperately defend? Haha. All the rape and torture? IT'S HISTORICALLY ACCURATE. Non-white people only in "exotic", "barbaric" or "slave roles"? Those people are actually white, you SJW! GRRM's comments about how he wants to date his 13 year old Danaerys character? It's a joke, calm down!

I love Game of Thrones thread, the stans never fail to deliver. lol

[ariakas]

Hahah defending that scene is so batshit (with no logic other than shrieks of "SJWs!!!" and "Tumblr!!!) I can't even.

Even my pretty openly bigoted relatives had a good cringe at the symbolism of a lily white girl crowd surfing over dark slaves as their saviour. It was. Not. Good.

The only person I've heard rationally defend it was the anon a while ago who points out that Dany's attempted liberation goes south in a hurry because she doesn't understand their culture, and thus GRRM could be subverting the White Saviour trope here. But denying that it is said trope, especially on the show? Is levels of batshit hipster internet racism few ever reach.

Or, you know, someone trolling and same'anoning like above.

[(Anonymous)]

"By 1699, the number of free blacks prompted fears of a “Negro insurrection.” Virginia Colonial ordered the repatriation of freed blacks back to Africa. Many blacks SOLD THEMSELVES to white masters so they would not have to go to Africa."
If they we treated so poorly and Africa was such a paradise, please explain this.

[jaybie_jarrett]

You know ..normally I'm one of the people to groan about SJW /Tumblr when I see them being unreasonable but....from what I'm reading of the scene....I can see the "White Savior" vibes. Like, they are obvious....

The scene is white savior-y

I am so fucking disgusting with this thread

[(Anonymous)]

There are so many people here who are trying to tell non-white people how they should feel about race-based discrimination, telling them that they are wrong for not having experienced discrimination in their home fucking countries.

Look, people. If you want to argue against the notion of the "white saviour," how about you don't play the white fucking saviour?

[(Anonymous)]

So much drama over a fucking fantasy show... FFS. Watch something else, if you don't like it.

[(Anonymous)]

This thread is so fucking ridiculous, I can't even.

Only could Game of Thrones fans be in pure denial that a lily white lady saving a bunch of dark skinned slaves isn't a picture definition of "White Savior." And the arguments here are so insane.

"There were only dark skinned people available because Morocco lol it would've been racist not to cast them!"
"Those brown slaves are actually white!"
"Americans shove there views of racism on everything!"

and my favorite:

"SJW!!!!!"

Like, are we seriously going to deny that racism exists or try to equate discrimination/slavery of white people to racism against POC today? Or that you must be American or a SJW to be skeptical of this scene and its casting? Or that this is a WHITE show with American production, taking place in basically a fantasy white Europe, basically all the leads are white, and the only non-white characters are almost without exception portrayed as barbaric and/or slaves?

For all the arguments you could make justifying the scene (and there might be some legitimate ones), denying that it's a blatant White Savior moment is about as idiotic as claiming that Danaerys in the show is not white.

I mean, I hope the posters here are trolls, but I don't think they are. So if they are trolls, good job, you get a 10/10. If they are normal people, 0/10. ugh. For all the times I genuinely think F!S has relatively smart people who can engage in serious discussion even under the guise of anon, I get proven wrong whenever anything about race enters the picture.

OP Here

[(Anonymous)]

Though I seem late to the party.

FWIW, I primarily read the books, not watch the show, and that seems to be why I have trouble seeing where all of the "white savior" stuff is coming from. In my head, people of Ghiscari descent were always olive-skinned, but would be classified as white at least as far as I'm concerned.