[ SECRET POST #2651 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2651 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 051 secrets from Secret Submission Post #379.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[loracarol]

I think it's because, with fanart, there's the expectation that the artist will have to buy tools for it, and thus the payment is merely to repay them for spending their money in the first place, on tools, on paper, on a art program, on printing it, etc.

On the other hand, with fanfic, there's the expectation/belief that it takes a lot less; at the very least it can be done with a pack of pencils and a cheap notebook; far less "tools" are needed. Even if its typed, it's still totally possible to do it for "free" or close to, depending on if there's a library where you live that offers computer usage, thus people are mostly paying you for your time, but your "time" is being spent on other people's characters.

Do I think this is fair? Not really. To be perfectly honest, I'd love to be a good enough writer that I could take fanfic commissions, since I can't really draw. |D Maybe I'll be able to make fandom-themed jewelry, and sell that someday. |D

I could be wrong, though, but that's just how I've seen it go down.

[(Anonymous)]

I find that argument to be a little silly. If you reduce both art and fanfiction to its very basic tools (instead of just doing it to fanfiction) than you can argue that well, all you need to make art is paper and a pencil and you can get free paper from recycling bins and borrow a pencil.

But that's not realistic because most fanartists use a lot more tools to make their art, just like how most fanfiction authors use more than a paper and a pencil to write their stories. Both groups will need computer access if they're to share it electronically.

Eh. I think the distinction is really arbitrary, tbh. The whole "but mah TOOLS!" thing strikes me as very disingenuous.

[loracarol]

I agree, I'm just saying what I've seen wrt arguments about one or the other.

[(Anonymous)]

As an artist, I can assure you that art supplies get quite pricey. Sure, at its most basic you can use just a pencil and scrap paper, but the quality of what you produce won't be that great. You're going to need a pen to ink it and colored pencils or markers to color it, and trust me-- with art supplies, you get what you pay for. There's a reason Prismacolors and Copics are held up as some of the best-quality markers you can buy. Having used those and used cheapo Crayolas and no-brand markers, there's really no comparison quality-wise. Sure, you can use the cheap stuff, but no one wants to pay for something drawn on scrap paper and colored with crappy markers. If you're doing any amount of art, it can get very expensive very quickly.

Meanwhile, with fanfiction, I write that in Microsoft Word, which came with my computer for free. It doesn't run out and I don't need to replace it, so I spend a grand total of $0 to write fanfic.

There really isn't any comparison there at all.

[(Anonymous)]

But that's the whole point. When people talk about artists' tools, they're more realistic about what artists actually use, but when the talk turns to writing all of a sudden it's oh, you don't need anything except the most basic programs and word processors and nothing else.

How about if we want something more suited to the task than Microsoft Word? How about if we need to do research that can't be done online? How about the cost of paper, printing and binding fanfiction to produce a hard copy of our work the way you require more expensive art supplies to produce a decent hard copy of your work?

But more importantly, why does the fact that your work (maybe) costs more means you can charge whatever you like for it, but writers can't charge anything at all for fanfiction?

[(Anonymous)]

Who uses something besides Word or Open Office to write fic, though? I literally do not know a single person who needs or uses more than that. I also don't know anyone whose research for fic is more involved than looking things up on the internet or occasionally going to a library if that's absolutely necessary, nor do I know of anyone who creates hard copies of their fanfic.

You're really stretching here.

[(Anonymous)]

All the artists I know use copier paper and cheap colored pencils for their art, so why would any artist need more than that?

(The above isn't true, but see how ridiculous that sounds when you apply your argument to art instead of just writing?)

[(Anonymous)]

I use Dramatica to plot out my stories. (http://dramatica.com/purchase) As well as Scrinever (http://literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.php) to orgainize all my notes and scenes and actually write the story. There are people that do this by hand instead of using the program. Which when you add up all the notecards and bulletin boards and tacks, probably cost more than just buying the program.

This one is another popular one. http://www.blackobelisksoftware.com/screenshots.html

I don't even use word, because I hate the program.

Put really this would be comparing using Gimp vs Photoshop, or ever other programs artists use.

As she said above, the tools you use such as pencils would be more comparable to the printing costs of the book/zines. That's going to be the reoccurring costs for the authors instead of the setting up costs.

For those prices: lulu.com

But really, most of us have nothing to do with word.

[(Anonymous)]

And what about the laptops needed to write fanfic?

When I did fanart, I didn't have my own computer. I scanned it using the computers at my school. I wrote the whole of my Master's dissertation on school computers. It can be done.

When it came to fanfic, I finally had to buy my own laptop. The amount of time it takes to write fic means there's no other way.

I hate this assumption that everyone already has a computer, that nobody buys a laptop specifically to write fanfic.

Not to mention that laptops wear out quickly. I've gone through three already, and the majority of the use they get is writing fanfic. That's way more cost than all the art materials I ever used.

I use free word processing though. Microsoft Word? I can't afford that! I use freebie software. Wish I had Word.

[(Anonymous)]

I remember when some of my fandoms would put out zines every couple of months or so and there was a call for authors/fan artists. The money they collected paid to bind the zine and to pay for ink and shipping. It came to anywhere between 5~18$ to purchase one.

You knew they always delivered though and you could see who the guest authors were before purchasing.

Besides zines, I don't think I'll ever purchase fanfic again because I've been screwed over before.

[(Anonymous)]

And fanfic writers don't have to pay for, for example, Microsoft Word? Or notebooks and pens to write in?

Sure, there are plenty of free programs you could use, but there are free art programs as well. Some writers have college debts to pay off where they learned to write well, and some artists are just naturally talented and never had to pay for a class. It goes both ways.

The mind is a tool, and it takes as much effort and experience to write REALLY good fic as draw really well.

[loracarol]

From what I have seen, it's easier to dismiss those things as "cheaper" or "free" (open office), while ignoring these little things like "electricity", "a computer", "free time", etc. It's weird. :/

[(Anonymous)]

while ignoring these little things like "electricity", "a computer", "free time", etc. It's weird. :/

Because people would most likely have those things anyway?

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, it's incredibly annoying, isn't it?

As if we all have computers coming out of our ears. What mythical country is it where the goverment issues everyone with laptops so we can write fanfic for free? I want to move there.

[(Anonymous)]

Which an artist needs as well, PLUS the cost of materials.

[(Anonymous)]

It's easier to dismiss them because they are required by everyone to create basically. If you mention them on both sides you might as well strike them off both lists.

[(Anonymous)]

But even if you use a free art program, you still have to purchase a tablet, and those aren't cheap.

And no, fanfic writers don't have to pay for Word. I've never shelled out a cent for it; every single computer I've ever purchased came with Word pre-installed. Failing that, OpenOffice is free.

[(Anonymous)]

You can't make art without a tablet, huh? Well, I can't write a story without having a handmade Italian leather-bound journal, a gold-plated fountain pen and special ink that costs $30/ounce, and a research assistant to look up things in libraries for me.

Your argument is weak. People can create art for free/cheap. Expensive tools might make it easier and give you more options but the very same thing can be said about tools used in writing.

[(Anonymous)]

I think you're underestimating how difficult it can be to use tools that aren't really made with making art in mind.

I'm perfectly capable of making art with a touchpad and have had a lot of practice with it, but learning how to handle my hand with something that works completely different than a pencil is a difficult learning curve that can be mostly by-passed by buying a tablet.

[(Anonymous)]

What the hell is wrong with your brain?

Do you literally not understand the difference between "Things I prefer to have to create with" and "things that I actually need to physically produce art?"

Art sells because of HOW IT LOOKS. And to make it look good, you do need the right materials. Otherwise you look like a kid scribbling in MS Paint. And the novelty of that may sell for one or two people, but isn't really viable for most folks.

Writing sells because of WHAT IT IS. It does not need to "look" a certain way. It doesn't need to be pretty. It doesn't need to be color-adjusted or printed out on the right paper. It just needs to be a good story. The quality of a story is in its words, the quality of art is in its image.

Why on earth would that be a debatable concept?

[(Anonymous)]

I'm curious about this magical country you live in, where Word is FREE. Last I checked, Microsoft was a business. I've bought a lot of computers for my office, and every one of them came with a *trial* version of MS Office pre-installed. But you've got to pay for the license.

[(Anonymous)]

You do realize that OpenOffice is free and works every bit as well as Word, right?

[(Anonymous)]

Yarny's free. Wordpad too. I never really understood the thing with Word, it was always too messy-looking. Wordpad is just the words you type.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah me too. Are there people out there really getting Word for free? How? I want to know so I can get it too. I'm sick of compatability issues with documents and everyone seems to use Word.

[(Anonymous)]

What? No you don't. I bought a new laptop a little over a year ago and it had Word pre-installed. It's not a trial version, it's never made me pay for anything and I can still use it.