fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2663 ]

[ SECRET POST #2663 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2663 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

[Stardust]

__________________________________________________

03. [posted twice]

__________________________________________________

04.

[Elementary]

__________________________________________________

05.

[El Goonish Shive]

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07. http://i62.tinypic.com/29cxt2a.jpg
[Hadaka Shitsuji, censored porn]

__________________________________________________

08. http://i.imgur.com/XGwxaCR.jpg
[cosplay; no sex but definitely nsfw]

__________________________________________________

09.

__________________________________________________

10.

__________________________________________________

11.

__________________________________________________

12. [ns]

__________________________________________________

13.

__________________________________________________

14.

__________________________________________________

15.

__________________________________________________

16.

[Art by: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Lets-Sing-Together-338248375]

__________________________________________________

17. [SPOILERS for Soul Eater]

__________________________________________________

18. [SPOILERS for captain america: the winter soldier]
[WARNING for rape]

__________________________________________________

19. [WARNING for suicide]

__________________________________________________

20. [WARNING for incest, possible non-con]

Notes:

Late at work again, sorry. Should be back to normal by next week!

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #380.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

So I was having an interesting conversation with some friends about romance and romantic subplots. I was a bit concerned about the fact that I had two characters I wanted to end up together but I didn't want to annoy everyone with a romantic subplot. My friend mentioned the reasons they disliked romantic subplots as "more about how they're done" and explained that they found them annoying because the characters seemed wrapped around each other to the point where it became a plot tumor, and they tended to describe each other in shallow conventionally attractive ways.

So from what I see, it's better to focus on who both characters were and on them as characters, to have them like each other for their whole character (what makes them...well THEM), as well as keeping the romantic subplot from taking over.

It made me a bit curious to ask and so I decided to ask some other people. What makes romantic subplots annoying to you? What would make you able to forgive or look past a romantic subplot? What do you all think?

I like when a romantic subplot adds character growth or to the plot in a meaningful way.

I don't like when it's obviously there to add cheap drama, gets in the way of the actual plot, or suddenly makes the characters act like assholes. Also not a big fan of relationships ending tragically. Or good long standing friendships being turned into romantic ones.

*nod*

I see. My favorite romantic subplot personally for "good character development along the way" is Dannyx Valerie in Danny Phantom. I don't know if it was just me or...they seemed so natural evolving in their opinions of one another, and maybe it was the fact that Danny only ever seemed to develop in character with Val (in comparison to his s3 relationship with Sam-and hell sometimes s2-where he was made dumb to make Sam(pulled back in characterization) right, and the right answer always seemed to be "Sam is right") . But their sort of relationship is the kind I always aspire to.

Yeah I get that, I hate when a character is made dumb or a jerk so the other character can be right personally, or when their personal issues and concerns are ignored. (*sighs* Butch Hartman seems to do this a lot *sighs*)

Also out of curiosity about the "friends turned into romantic /love interests" What is it that you hate? Just the situation, or situations where the story seems to say "romance is better than friendship". I'm asking because I have a situation like that, except the evolution of 'friend to love interest' is treated more like "maybe this wasn't the best decision for them" and causes a bit of conflict because of the natural contrast of their personalities.

Hope you don't mind my stupid questions and DP related ranting.

Re: Romantic Subplots

sporkly - 2014-04-19 01:35 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Romantic Subplots

jaybie_jarrett - 2014-04-19 01:49 (UTC) - Expand

When they add nothing to the story, pretty much. Or worse, actively detract from it.

*nod* I can see that yeah. If they feel shoehorned in for example?

what's annoying about most romantic subplots is that they all seem to follow the same codes, tropes, etc no matter what the genre or setting of the work. so you have this same amazing story and worldbuilding you've been doing, and these unique characters that your audience has fallen in love with, and all of that goes out the window the minute mr and ms white-and-pretty end up together. it's the same story, over and over, and when it eats up time that could be used for plot or background related purposes, it gets very very irritating.
so what you have to do to make the romantic subplot interesting is to make it original. to tell the story that's been told a million times in a way it's never been told before. make your couple a bit mismatched, make them interact in ways that the audience doesn't expect, and tie the subplot to the main plot so it doesn't feel intrusive.

*nod* I see your point and I agree

I remember reading a lot of HP fanfiction and I have to say, my least favorite was always that story where Evil manipulative!Dumbledore's secret plot involves keeping Harry and Hermione apart , distracted by his henchmen the Weasleys, because their twu wuv would save/change the world. I remember thinking "okay even if Dumbledore were a super evil mastermind, I think he would have more on his mind than who the Boy Who Lived wants to hook up with.

I always believe that unless its a romance fic, romance shouldn't take center stage.

and yes making it different from the usual is also important. I like to believe "love is a journey not a destination'. A relationship between two people is going to have ups and downs.

I agree with your friend. For me it's all about whether the romance seems natural or forced, whether the characters involved come off as three dimensional people without each other or seem like they only exist for the sake of the relationship, and lastly whether the romance complements the overarching plot or distracts / drags it down / attempts to replace it. If there are checkmarks for the first option for all of those, I'm all for a romance element.

I was actually very reluctant to introduce romance into my most recent story because I wanted to write a story without romance for once, but the two characters who were supposed to just be friends had so much chemistry that I just couldn't hold out. Now, of course, I love it. But I was very conscious of those checkboxes as I wrote it.

*nod* That sounds good. I can agree with all that. I tend to really keep my romances on the side,a lot because I know as a reader I'm bored by the whole "are they going to kiss/get together or not" .My reaction is "I'm going to go to my room, call me when they finally fucking kiss".

It should tie in and work with the story. As of lately I've been wary of romantic subplots, and even cut them out of some of my planned works because they weren't really needed in the first place. I even planned one work where the protagonist decides she's not interested in finding someone right now, and is okay with it.

Re: Romantic Subplots

inkdust - 2014-04-19 01:44 (UTC) - Expand

For me, it's mostly about whether or not the romance interferes with or randomly takes people away from the actual plot. If the characters involved in the romance seem to be prioritising it over rather more important concerns, and not in the sense of trying to forget the bad things and steal some happy moments but in the sense of seeming to actually forget the important things while making lovey-dovey faces and/or romance-related angst, then it annoys me. If the narration seems to be prioritising the romance over more important concerns, then doubly so.

Basically, there's a reason why "Flash, I love you, but we only have fourteen hours to save the Earth!" is one of my favourite lines ever.

If the main plot is the romance, then obviously none of the above applies.

This is what I was going to say too. I don't like it when I end up shaking my head at the couple and saying "don't you have more important things to worry about right now?"

It's one thing if you have a couple characters who are romantics and prone to distracting themselves from their problems to the point of causing themselves further problems, but not every couple in every story with a romantic subplot can be like this and they often start prioritizing the romance above other more sensible things even when they're characterization should have them responding differently.

Edited 2014-04-19 01:10 (UTC)

Re: Romantic Subplots

jaybie_jarrett - 2014-04-19 01:37 (UTC) - Expand

You just summed up exactly why I never feel I can recommend the Species Imperative series. Great worldbuilding, many interesting characters, an unusual portrayal of nonhuman psychology, and the author keeps interrupting it so the FMC can ramble on about how "yummy" the MMC is. The only real payoff to those parts is that the FMC goes from not banging the MMC to banging him, and the MMC could easily have been reduced to one or more nameless minor characters without affecting the larger conflict. (The FMC actually lampshades at one point that her choice of boyfriends is a small issue compared to the survival of an entire alien race, and then she goes right back to the "yummy" monologues.)

Edited 2014-04-19 02:12 (UTC)

Re: Romantic Subplots

(Anonymous) - 2014-04-19 02:32 (UTC) - Expand

For me, romantic subplots get annoying when they eclipse the plot instead of adding to it, and when the characters have little to no chemistry or simply feel forced together. Sometimes it feels like there's a romance for the sake of having a romance and not because it adds to the characters/plot.

I agree. Not everything NEEDS a main character romance, or even a romance. (though sometimes I do like shipping the background characters with one another)

That usually they are seen as the 'fix' - if only this character could find a mate, everything would be good! Or when character a's whole life revolves around character b. Or when the whole damn plot is just a shaky scaffolding for the romance. OR, when the 'romance' totally changes the character, so Susan BadAss SuperSpy or whatever falls in love and become Susie Creamcheese Must Have All The Babies.

Yuck.

Ah I see. That's the kind of thing i don't want coming across in my stuff. I actually have a side work where there female protagonist NEVER gets a boyfriend because she just isn't interested.

I have to say I dislike "Must Have All The Babies" attitude cropping up as well. I don't mind characters being written as having children, but the whole "sex is so great BECAUSE BABIES!!!!!' attitude is... bleh.

Unfortunately I know one writer in HP who does that. The problem is I forget about taking them off Alert until the next "BABIES! BABIES! BABIES!" fic happens.

Re: Romantic Subplots

tabaqui - 2014-04-19 13:37 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Romantic Subplots

jaybie_jarrett - 2014-04-19 15:23 (UTC) - Expand

I don't object to romantic subplots on the whole, but I do hate how shoehorned in they are. Like in Thor...that romance had no foundation, they seemed to fall in love just because, it added nothing to the plot. I also hate ones where the timing is off; like, you're about to go into battle with giant robot snails and you're taking a 5-minute pause for some purple prose and making out? I'm ok with a significant look and then makeouts AFTER the enemy is defeated, but come on, guys! Don't put the rest of the story on hold for your canoodling.

Ah yeah, I hear you there.

it works if I feel that the characters really care about each other

Fanfic or original? In original stories I'm usually okay with a romantic subplot as long as it's not set up in such a way as to be totally nonsensical, inconsistent with the characters as they've been presented, etc. I've got no particular reason to think two completely unfamiliar characters wouldn't hook up, or to be sick to death of seeing them do it.

In fanfic, though, I think it depends on how much explicit canon support the pairing has, how much it's in keeping with the characters' canon personalities, and how ubiquitous the pairing is in the fandom. Character X Falls In Love With Their Most Reviled Enemy, Character Y, rarely works for me, nor does The Epic Love Story of Characters X and Y, Who Are Both Dead And Never Actually Met In Canon, But Had Violently Opposing Values And Goals When They Were Alive.

Fic #29813741982740192834 In Which Longtime Friends X and Y Suddenly Discover Their Undying Love For Each Other REALLY gets on my nerves, especially when I like both the characters involved and I started reading with the hope that it would turn out to be Really Interesting Story About X and Y That Didn't Go There instead.

Re: Romantic Subplots

jaybie_jarrett - 2014-04-19 03:42 (UTC) - Expand

If both characters are so wraped around each other that they forget about the everything, including their personalities. Personally, I like when the character has a defined personality, and then they met the other character and get to know each other, bond over stuff, and start caring about each other. Imo developing their friendship first before getting together is important. If they get to grow as characters during the course of the story, that'd be great. Make me care about the characters individually before I care about their relationship.

Tvtropes has a trope section, Strangled by the Red String that I think explains it better than I would.

Re: Romantic Subplots

jaybie_jarrett - 2014-04-19 04:02 (UTC) - Expand

One of the better romantic plots I've read in science fiction lately was Best of All Possible Worlds by Karen Lord. It's a romance story without any of the usual comic or stupid shenanigans. Very little annoys me more than kissus interruptus or characters seething over throwaway love triangles.

If I remember right, FMC of Best of All Possible Worlds even has a light fling with a third party while still friends with MMC. And when FMC gets the prenuptual paperwork in the mail, she goes directly to MMC's house and says, "hey, I don't mind, but you should have mentioned it first."

It's the sort of build-up as to why I mildly ship Mako/Raleigh in Pacific Rim. He asks for an opinion, she gives a blunt and critical opinion, he nods and disagrees. In a Han/Leia template, they'd be insulting each other. I'm open to non-shipping them as well.

On the other hand I'm not opposed to sap, the story "Memory" in this anthology is epically sappy, while being a solid sci-fi story, and a bit disturbing in parts. (Possibly a better Dune than Dune.) Barnhill's The Insect and the Astronomer: A Love Story is one of my favorite fantasy shorts from last year:

The Insect has never been in love.

The Astronomer has never been alive.

It is important that you understand this.

I'm loving short stories because you can get away with a line like: "I needed your eyes so that I may see the reflection of the stars that I love in the eyes that I love." You can also have the Little Mermaid butcher the prince in an act of revenge without needing to justify an extended narrative.

Waffling turns me off. I'm playing around with Rosenkavalier which never waffles. The wooing is scrunched in a bit of recitive and a duet. It's arguably kicked of by the virginal but not entirely innocent Sophie, who reveals that she knows exactly who and what Octavian is, and is intrigued rather than offended by his reputation.

Re: Romantic Subplots

cbrachyrhynchos - 2014-04-19 04:25 (UTC) - Expand

I hate romance as a whole, even when it's pushed to the side, but I make an exception if it evolves two characters I really love. If I like them, I want them to be happy, and if being happy = being with each other, than okay, I can get on board with that.

Another exception is when the dynamic itself is really interesting and not something you see done (well) very often. Like December-December Romances or some form of romance between actual enemies.

But I hate the Friendship-to-Romance trope and nothing will ever change that.

Re: Romantic Subplots

jaybie_jarrett - 2014-04-19 15:20 (UTC) - Expand

In original media? Well, it annoys me if the new character is there purely as a Love Interest. Otherwise it doesn't bother me much.

Fic is a different kettle of fish, and the only reason I'll read romantic subplots is if they develop organically and aren't just there as an excuse to get X into Y's pants.

Re: Romantic Subplots

jaybie_jarrett - 2014-04-19 15:21 (UTC) - Expand

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only