fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2663 ]

[ SECRET POST #2663 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2663 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[Stardust]

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03. [posted twice]

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04.

[Elementary]

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05.

[El Goonish Shive]

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06.

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07. http://i62.tinypic.com/29cxt2a.jpg
[Hadaka Shitsuji, censored porn]

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08. http://i.imgur.com/XGwxaCR.jpg
[cosplay; no sex but definitely nsfw]

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09.

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10.

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11.

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12. [ns]

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13.

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14.

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15.

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16.

[Art by: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Lets-Sing-Together-338248375]

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17. [SPOILERS for Soul Eater]

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18. [SPOILERS for captain america: the winter soldier]
[WARNING for rape]

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19. [WARNING for suicide]

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20. [WARNING for incest, possible non-con]

Notes:

Late at work again, sorry. Should be back to normal by next week!

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #380.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Between yesterday's MGS secret, and today's secret 8, I have a question for the men of FS.

It's common for you to find and enjoy fanservice, even the exploitative skeevy and sickeningly gratuitous, yes? You know you're wrong, and it makes you a lesser human being to support it, but you still do. I still do. I liked Quiets design for example. I could look at that picture in secret 8 for quite some time, even though I know in my bones what this makes me.

My question is this: How do you live with yourself? What can you tell yourself that isn't half baked justifications that you use to let yourself keep fapping? How do you call yourself a good man knowing what you are?

SA
I don't mean this to come off as confrontational or as judgemental as I'm sure it does. I just keep having these... I dunno, fit's of self loathing related to my sexuality and how it comes out, and I'm finding it harder and harder to be ok with who I am. Arousal followed by deep and strong suicidal impulses is not how a functional human being should be.

Still SA

I don't mean my "sexuality" I mean the abusive degrading expression of... I dunno, misogyny doesn't seem like the right word, but I can't think of a better word. abusive degrading expression of misogyny I have instead of a sexuality. I know I'm not alone in possessing this, and I just don't think I can live with it.

See a therapist. I'm not saying this to be dismissive -- you sound like you are having a serious mental/emotional health crisis. Seek professional help.

You think I can tell someone face-to-face about ANY of this? It's either "No big deal" if I get a dickbag misogynist therapist, or "You're evil and vile" if I get a decent human being. There is no winning in this for me.

anon -

a decent therapist should NOT judge you. that's not what they're there for. a decent therapist will be able to sit with you and your thoughts and feelings, and help you untangle the knots.

and as someone who cares an awful lot about women's rights, I think it's amazing that you're even aware of/acknowledge how messed up expressions of sexuality can be.

but please don't get mad at yourself about it. you've grown up in a culture that's taught you these things. the next step is to change it.

imagine how wonderful it would be to express your sexuality without guilt or misogyny, and to simply enjoy sexual relationships. that's achievable!

instead of seeing a general therapist, it may even be beneficial to see a sex therapist, since they would specialize in that sort of issue.

I hope you eventually free yourself of self-loathing. it's not a fun place to be. :(

also I don't think you sound like an awful human being.

you just sound human. that's ok. :)

NAYRT: No competent therapist will tell you you're an evil and vile person. You may have done things that are, but you as a person are not. They will also not tell you anything that leads you to consider suicide is "no big deal". The actual thing may not be that bad, but its effects clearly are.

I can't provide much help other than that, but I wanted to say that.

Also, I don't think what you have done (at least, what you're talking about) is evil and vile! That was phrased poorly. I apologize. A more accurate phrasing would be "Even if you had done things that were, you as a person are not."

I'm going to third seeing a therapist, as it does sound like you should probably talk professionally to someone about this kind of stuff. Also, if a therapist does say something that is actively/actually judging you negatively for your opinion, you should find another therapist. I've taken enough psychology courses to say that if they do judge you, they are doing therapy wrong, because it's THE biggest rule in therapy to be non-judgemental to clients in therapy.

SA
You can also ask to see a female therapist if it helps you. Hell, there have been studies that show when both men and women first go into therapy they say that they would prefer to see a female therapist first. Granted at the end of the study it was shown that the people ended up saying that it didn't matter what gender the therapist was, what mattered was the client-therapist relationship, but the point is if you are that worried about getting a judgy male therapist, you can always ask to see a female one.

I think we all have the potential to become unmoored from what we know is right.
It sounds like you're really strugging, OP. If you are alarmed by the direction in whiich your sexuality has gone, and the control it has over you then you should speak to someone. Professionals won't judge you, and you may be able to make peace with yourself.

Good luck, OP. You can do it. :)

You assume an awful lot. I don't think less of myself because I enjoy some media.

Do you enjoy even the exploitative skeevy and sickeningly gratuitous media?
Do you like the Quiet design? Did you enjoy high school of the dead, not in spite of the fanservice but in part because of it? Did you buy dragons crown fully expecting you'd only play as the sorceress? Is this the media you enjoy and is the exploitative skeevy and sickeningly gratuitous fanservice in it one of the things you enjoy?

And you still don't think less of yourself?

Then I need to know how.

I don't feel any of the crushing guilt that you seem to feel, because I haven't done anything wrong (FTR, neither have you, I'm assuming). I'm sorry that you got your wires crossed by some overly-enthusiastic SJW, but fanservice is not up there with raping and pillaging.

I'm sorry, but this is not an SJW issue. This is just basic human decency and respect.

I stared at that acronym for a good two minutes without being able to come up with a better word for "someone who terrorizes someone else into believing that they are a lesser human being for having a different viewpoint", and then I just went with it.

The trouble is that you seem to think that "basic human decency and respect" = "not finding women sexually attractive."

It's okay to get off to women. It's not okay to treat them like that's all they're there for.

not a man but...

It's okay to be attracted to women's bodies. It's okay to think that revealing clothes are sexy. It's okay to watch something just because you think it's sexy. And it's totally possible to be critical of a piece of media and enjoy it at the same time. You don't need to justify attraction or the act of masturbation. Those are perfectly natural things.

What's not okay is treating real life women like they are living fanservice.

I'm seconding the suggestion for therapy. This sounds like it's messing with your life and a therapist is going to be a lot more objective than FS will be, and they'll actually know how to help. I'm sure you won't be telling them anything they haven't heard before. I'm not an expert by any means but I have a feeling this is probably pretty common.

ETA - I just read the bit above about the suicidal impulses (warn next time?) and yeah, you should definitely get help. https://www.imalive.org/ has a live chat.

Edited 2014-04-19 05:10 (UTC)

Okay, here's the deal. You are not a bad person for finding female bodies sexy. You are not a bad person for finding scantily-clad images of fictional women sexy. Hell, you're not even a bad person for finding scantily-clad real-life women sexy.

What determines whether you're doing something right or wrong is whether an actual, real-life person is being harmed by your actions. Looking at computer-generated images of half-naked fictional women doesn't harm anyone; looking at upskirt photos of women and girls who did not consent to be photographed does harm someone. See the difference? As long as the sexy media you're enjoying doesn't involve non-consensual harm to real people, you have no reason to feel this crushing guilt.

Even if some of the media you consume promotes problematic images of women, that doesn't automatically make you a bad person; you just need to be careful not to treat real-life women as though they were fanservice images that exist solely for your sexual gratification. As long as you don't do that, you're okay.

I know that doesn't necessarily make your problems with guilt and self-loathing magically go away; it sounds like you've internalized some really damaging messages about sexuality to the extent that you don't know how to find images of women sexy without thinking that you're doing something awful. I agree with all the people here who have suggested you see a therapist about this. Hopefully a professional can help you get to a place where you can experience attraction and arousal without hating yourself for it. Sexual attraction isn't necessarily exploitative, and I think you need some help to realize that.

I could look at that picture in secret 8 for quite some time, even though I know in my bones what this makes me.

I can look at the picture in secret 7 for quite some time, and I know in my bones what it makes me: A person who likes naked men having kinky bondage sex and enjoying it.

That cosplayer is dressed up like that for fun, and I hope she enjoyed every minute of showing it off to appreciative people without being mistreated by gross assholes. Are you a gross asshole who would grope her, leer at her, or make disgusting comments to her if you saw her at a con? Would you pass around her picture making comments like "look at this stupid slut, hope something terrible happens to her"? Or would you do something like say "hi, you look amazing, may I take your picture?", go home, and enjoy the photo without hating her for being sexy yet still a person you should treat with respect? If it's the latter, congratulations, you're attracted to women without feeling the need to make them suffer for your attraction, and therefore, not an asshole. In that respect, anyway. You might kick puppies or something otherwise, I dunno.

I'm not a man, but I honestly don't mind men enjoying fanservice, so long as they realize that that's what it is. It's not an intrinsic part of the story, it's not realistic because (insert bullshit the creator comes up with here), it's shameless, pandering, and dumb as hell. If you acknowledge that and don't expect real life women to look and act like dopey male fantasies, you're golden.

Mind you I expect sane women to feel the same about dumb, pandering yaoi, too.

I recognize that people have urges and that sex sells and am realistic about it - and that's why I respect the hell out of creators who choose not to employ it and am much, much more likely to watch/read/play/otherwise consume their work.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2663 ]

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