fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2686 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2686 ⌋

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 059 secrets from Secret Submission Post #384.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

This. I'm sorry, I don't think that creating another human being should be a 'basic, fundamental human right.'. It's an enormous, life-changing responsibility and is something that should be planned for and most importantly, wanted by both parties involved.

(reply from suspended user)

I'm sorry, but you are reaching here with your "omg government control!" thing. Yes those things are horrible, but YOU brought them up, not OP or anyone agreeing with them.

Who do think would make the decision that welfare mom isn't allowed to have any more kids? Assuming governmental control of reproduction is the logical progression of a discussion of the opinion that reproduction should be regulated.

I was going to leave it because this is one of those agree to disagree issues apparently, but this is also an issue I feel pretty strongly about (and I don't feel strongly about much) so I'm having a hard time staying away. I have known and know so many "sterilize the welfare moms with five kids" kind of people and that's the vibe I'm getting from this. You can't just say "I think people shouldn't have kids they can't afford" and not expect the next question to be "who decides you can afford them?"

Re: Controversial opinions

fingalsanteater - 2014-05-12 01:21 (UTC) - Expand

crunchysunrises - 2014-05-12 01:47 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2014-05-12 13:28 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2014-05-12 01:21 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2014-05-12 02:00 (UTC) - Expand

Dude. YOU (not just you, you and Stella and some anons) brought the regulation thing to the table. Not the anon who started the thread, not me, and not any anon agreeing with OP of thread. It's an OPINION about when it is and isn't a good idea to have kids, and it was made clear that nobody is trying to apply that to regulation or that we think it SHOULD be regulated. How much clearer do you need us to be??

diet_poison - 2014-05-13 00:15 (UTC) - Expand

No, that is not reaching. When we start talking about rights (and the anon stella replied to was questioning the idea that having kids is a right, btw), then we are starting to talk about government control. The entire notion of rights revolves around what a government can or cannot compel a person to do or not do.

If you believe that having children is not a right, then it follows that you believe that it's perfectly reasonable for a society, and therefore a government, to restrict how and when people can reproduce.

Ok, I see where you are coming from with that.

I guess I don't think that saying something shouldn't be controlled by the government means that I automatically think it must be a right, so to me, saying something isn't a fundamental right doesn't automatically mean I think it should be government-controlled.

And I don't think this should be government-controlled. I think that is a terrible idea for a number of reasons. I just have an opinion that there are situations where I think it's irresponsible to have a kid - especially situations where the parents are only having it for their own sake.

I know you and I don't always agree, but I'm agreeing you in this thread.

Reproduction should never be regulated, but goddamn do I wish so many people in unfortunate situations would THINK about what bringing a child in would mean.

And fucking hell we need more and more free birth control, for men AND women.

Ugh it's a giant mess.

do you think this applies to women across the world and in every culture, religion and class?

you can't really compare the situations in a lot of countries to places like the us, the uk, canada, etc. though. there are still large portions of the world that have very limited access to contraception, abortion and women's healthcare and where having children often isn't a choice women get to make for whatever reason. in those places, the bigger issue is women having the right to choose not to have children if they don't want them.

So you're okay with eugenics? You're okay with people deciding that women of certain races and ethnicities and classes shouldn't be allowed to have children?

Jesus fucking christ, don't any of you people read any fucking history? We made this shit a right because majority groups abused their fucking power and tried to use it to stave off the promulgation of minority groups. And you're sitting there talking about this shit like it wouldn't be abused again.

You basically just pulled the race-and-ethnicity think out of your ass, anon.

No, actually, I didn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization

Yes, actually, you did. I find the transition from "I wish people would make more responsible decisions about kids" to your assumption that someone literally supports eugenics to be both illogical and really rude.

stella_down, I feel like the context of the above comment was lost on you. It transitioned from an anon talking about responsibility to another anon deciding they support eugenics. Which is...no.

In seriousness, though, thanks for the links because I do think this is an important thing to read up on.

diet_poison - 2014-05-13 01:16 (UTC) - Expand

diet_poison - 2014-05-13 15:11 (UTC) - Expand

I know, right? This is why there are books written about this shit.

yet everyone's still sitting around going "hurr durr we're so civilized and egalitarian now everything is solved that can never happen again!"

???

When was egalitarism brought into this?

It was brought in the moment people started talking about how certain people shouldn't reproduce.

(Anonymous) - 2014-05-12 03:54 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2014-05-12 04:32 (UTC) - Expand

diet_poison - 2014-05-13 00:20 (UTC) - Expand

diet_poison - 2014-05-13 01:23 (UTC) - Expand

Yes, jfc.