[ SECRET POST #2700 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2700 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 099 secrets from Secret Submission Post #386.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sure you'll get shit for this OP, but I sympathize. I know kudos are convenient and fast, but sometimes the proper way to thank someone for writing a fic you enjoyed shouldn't be about what's convenient for the reader. It's like putting a lot of thought into getting a present for someone and then having them open up, flash you the thumbs up and then walk away without a word.

[(Anonymous)]

This. To me a kudos says only, "I cared enough to click a button." You can't assume anything more than that.

I honestly don't get the aversion to leaving even a fleeting comment. Sure, maybe people don't feel they can craft a comment that's commensurate with the quality of the fic, but even saying "I loved this fic" would be so much better than nothing.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't get it either, but I think most people protest that they're not good at thinking of something nice to say even when they liked a fic, and they don't think they need to make the effort. This opinion is all over this secret thread. People see nothing wrong with consuming the product of a writer's efforts (hours and hours of labor, if not more), but they won't spend a minute of their time to tell them so. The majority of fandom thinks it's fine to value fanfiction so little because there's so much of it and it's free.

[arcadiaego]

What if they're actually no good at thinking of something to say? Commenting on fic makes me anxious.

If you have a problem with people reading your work in the way they want, you probably need to stop writing things that can be obtained for free, and get paid for it instead.

[(Anonymous)]

If people with actual, diagnosed communication issues such that it takes them hours to sit and craft (admittedly beautiful) responses to an 80K fic of mine, people who merely "feel anxious" saying "Nice job!" or "Good work!" or even "I really liked this!" can suck it up and either write a short review or stop looking for sympathy from everyone else.

Be a jerk, don't comment, and own it.

But don't turn this into a "You're trying to moderate how I consume media!" thing, because it's not. These people want reviews, they prefer reviews, and they're being honest about it. It doesn't have anything to do with you... except that their wanting apparently makes you feel defensive. And that's a you thing, not something that they were trying to do to you.

[arcadiaego]

Responding to a secret about kudos with comments about why I prefer kudos is not looking for sympathy. I can see you have serious problems talking about things that aren't you, but come on now.

that it takes them hours to sit and craft (admittedly beautiful) responses to an 80K fic of mine

Nice humblebrag, there.

If people with actual, diagnosed communication issues

Shall we submit this official diagnosis in writing from our doctors before our refusal to comment on your masterpiece is accepted?

Be a jerk, don't comment, and own it.

You have serious entitlement issues if you think the only reason someone wouldn't comment is a serious communication disorder or a personality defect.


It doesn't have anything to do with you...

Apart from where you said anyone who doesn't comment is a jerk, lazy, or has a medical problem and should prioritise your feelings over their own because you put so much effort in and (infinate, seeing as you've just said you already have lots) praise is the point of writing.

[(Anonymous)]

I can see you have serious problems talking about things that aren't you, but come on now.
*grins* Weren't you the one who originally made "a secret about kudos" about your dislike of leaving comments? Pot, meet the kettle. (Does this mean that you also "have serious problems talking about things that aren't you"? Come on now, be honest.

Nice humblebrag, there.
Thanks!

Shall we submit this official diagnosis in writing from our doctors before our refusal to comment on your masterpiece is accepted?
Frankly, I'd find that boring. (But it's nice of you to assume it's a masterpiece. It's not, but it's nice of you to say so.)

But the point is this, if someone in that situation can bestir themselves to make an effort and leave a comment because they genuinely seem to want to, then the overused "talking to strangers on the internet makes me feel anxious" excuse/explanation (and never mind that in making it, the writer is usually talking to other strangers on the internet) over leaving seven letters ("Good job!" or "Nice fic!")that would apparently make OP's day really aren't going to get a lot of sympathy from me.

(And, honestly, I never, ever hear about anxiety in leaving reviews/getting permissions except in a "so I shouldn't have to context!" It never seems to occur to people that, frankly, most people don't care. They either want the review or not to deal with someone who's going to make their fandom experience difficult/stressful.)

You have serious entitlement issues if you think the only reason someone wouldn't comment is a serious communication disorder or a personality defect.
Did I make this A = B comparison? I don't think so. I find it interesting that you drew that conclusion, but it certainly wasn't one that I intended to communicate.

But for what it's worth, I think there's an entitlement issue inherent to the idea that, because it's free, you can do as you like. And, if someone says that it bums them out that you're doing X, here not commenting, citing your feelings somehow negates their feelings. It doesn't. You certainly don't have to indulge their feelings, but it doesn't make them unreasonable to have them. It certainly doesn't remove their right to communicate their upset. And saying "THINK OF THE POOR, ANXIOUS PEOPLE!" certainly implies that you want the comment-seeking-writers to shut up, sit down, and crank out fic because it's just unreasonable to be hurt by those poor, delicately anxious readers. Never mind that there are equally delicately anxious writers out there.

Apart from where you said anyone who doesn't comment is a jerk, lazy, or has a medical problem and should prioritise your feelings over their own because you put so much effort in and (infinate, seeing as you've just said you already have lots) praise is the point of writing.
I don't think I wrote that list anywhere... or even used such absolute language.

And I'm still not sure how the OP's feelings have anything to do with your review feelings. They're separate entities.

But that said, I'm not sure how saying "THINK OF THE ANXIOUS PEOPLE" in response to the writer's sadness over a lack of comments is anything other than... how did you put it... ah, yes, that the writer "should prioritise your feelings over their own because you put so much effort in"... into reading their work, I assume.

and, while praise isn't my sole motivation for writing, I know that it is for some writers. And I know that it really, genuinely hurts others. Of course, since writing for praise isn't something you do (given your tone), I suppose empathizing with those people is out of line, huh?

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you for this. Totally agree with everything you said here.

[(Anonymous)]

Well said, anon.

And isn't it amusing how all these people who simply cannot bring themselves to compose even a tiny 4- or 5-word comment are SOMEHOW able to write surprisingly lengthy comments justifying it. *headshake*

[(Anonymous)]

you'd rather have me read your fic and don't leave a kudos? good to know.

[(Anonymous)]

A lot of things make me anxious. I'm not exempt from doing all of them just because they cause me difficulty, and if I don't do something because it makes me anxious, that's on me. There's nothing wrong with feeling anxious at the thought of doing _______, but I'd be pretty entitled if I expected the rest of the world is not obligated to suck it up and accommodate my anxiety.

In a case like "I'm not good at thinking of something to say", well, how are you addressing this problem? Because there will almost certainly be many, many situations throughout your lifetime in which you'll need to participate in a conversation with someone. A situation like having plenty of time to think and type up a compliment for a writer who doesn't know you're planning to write it... I don't know, is there a more low risk, low pressure social situation in fandom? It sounds like a good place to start working on this issue.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't write long reviews for books I read, not going to do it for fanwork.

[crunchysunrises]

And, what seven letters ("Good job!" or "Nice fic") now counts as a "long review"? Riiight.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Exactly. All the people who are like "But I don't know what to say!" are overthinking it. Sure, it's hard to come up with a review if you're trying to be devastatingly brilliant or write an epic review. But just telling someone that you enjoyed their fic and hope they'll continue or keep writing is too hard now?

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

But just telling someone that you enjoyed their fic and hope they'll continue or keep writing is too hard now?

See, I thought that's what the Kudos clicks say. Then again, it's so easy to stoke my ego that a Kudos is more than enough for me.

[(Anonymous)]

I thought the same thing before this thread, actually. But now, looking at all the people who've said they leave kudos as a "pat on the head" for fics that they didn't like but want to acknowledge the effort, I'm not so sure. :(

[crunchysunrises]

I can see both sides of the argument and my personal preferences lie somewhere in between. But that said, when OP implies that comments like "Good fic!" or "Nice job!" would make OP's day, then it's ridiculous for anyone to claim it's the length of a potential comment holding them back.

As someone said down (or possibly up) thread, I'd be happier (and let it go) if they just said, "I didn't want to leave a comment. Sure, it's rude/unkind/whatever, but I'm owning that and moving on."

Yes it is

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry, but too many writers have reacted negatively to a 'Loved it' comment for me to keep leaving comments.

So it's a kudo or nothing.

I admit I also like the star system AFF uses so you can grade the fic (5 stars if you loved it, but 4 or 3 if there are too many problems with the writing or story but you'd like to encourage the writer anyway? And I avoid leaving less than 3 stars because I feel that would be unnecessarily demoralizing to the writer).

[(Anonymous)]

THIS!

Occasionally, I stumble across people complaining that I haven't updated this or that fic in awhile. Interestingly, I once looked at the names and then compared them to the reviews on a fic. Imagine my surprise that this fic with four reviews (and no kudos since it's not on AO3) had a following. And it apparently hadn't occurred to any of them that a.) the fandoms I was happily writing in were generous with their kudos/comments or b.) rather than whining to each other, they could've left feedback for me. Something to let me, who already knows the entirety of that story, know that they, people who loved that story, would like to read more of it.

Apparently, I'm supposed to go to the effort of writing a fic that they love, without comment or encouragement or even knowing that anyone else is reading it. And they're entitled to consume the (free!) fruits of my labor without comment or encouragement, and by not giving them what they want, I'm somehow "breaking the reader/writer" contract.

Yeah. And they wonder why I write so many fanfics for the fandom that is quite free with their comments/kudos/squee.

[(Anonymous)]

I know. I'm not sure why people get so defensive about this topic. It's one thing if you can't be bothered to type out even a brief comment, but at least be honest that this is a trivial bit of rudeness on your part, not some huge sin for an authors who enjoy positive feedback. If I read a fic I like, I want the author to know it so they'll write more. We both win! It's as simple as that.

[(Anonymous)]

AYART

Exactly! I don't always leave reviews,and it's rude, but I acknowledge that and move on.

And you're the sort of reader that I'd write another chapter for. (No really. I'm that easy to persuade.)

[(Anonymous)]

People see nothing wrong with consuming the product of a writer's efforts (hours and hours of labor, if not more), but they won't spend a minute of their time to tell them so.

Yes, and? That's how fandom's supposed to work; you put into it what you want, and hopefully whatever you put into it helps the system keep running well enough that it continues to give you what you want in return.

Now, me personally, I write fic, I moderate a couple of communities, I participate in fannish discussions on DW and LJ, I run the occasional fic exchange, I leave kudos on fic, and I very rarely comment on fic. Someone else might create vids and comment frequently on fic. A third person might create icons, record podfic, and post episode reactions (and never comment on fic). And so on. All of us are contributing to and sustaining the fannish gift economy.

I certainly like getting comments on my fic, but my primary reward for participating in fandom is fandom. I spend hours and hours writing fic for other people to read; they spend hours and hours writing fic for me to read (or creating vids for me to watch, or icons for me to use, or etc.). It balances out.

You might point out at this juncture that for some fic writers, receiving comments is the only reward they require for fandom to feel worthwhile for them, and that if they don't get enough comments, they're liable to pack up their toys and go home. Which is true, as far as it goes, but that's also how fandom's supposed to work. This is a hobby; if it's not fun anymore, then you should stop doing it.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Now, me personally, I write fic, I moderate a couple of communities, I participate in fannish discussions on DW and LJ, I run the occasional fic exchange, I leave kudos on fic, and I very rarely comment on fic. Someone else might create vids and comment frequently on fic. A third person might create icons, record podfic, and post episode reactions (and never comment on fic). And so on. All of us are contributing to and sustaining the fannish gift economy.

Not true. At the end of the day, you're all putting stuff out there and hoping desperately that someone will respond. None of you is perpetuating the "gift" economy that you're talking about.

If there's no "consumer" and no "intersection of supply and demand" (which is where the price that the market will bear is found) then there's no economy. And the "intersection"/price in fandom is some sort of response/interaction. If no one "pays" for what they consume, then there's literally no economy. (Even in barter or exchange economy, someone is paying for something with something else.)

You can talk about how "fandom" is your primary reward but would you run any of those communities or exchanges if no one responded or participated? Of course not. If no one responded to your meta (or acknowledged you when you jumped it), you wouldn't post meta. And you wouldn't write twenty-eight fics if not a single one got feedback. The reality is that you need validation and audience participation just as much as OP does. OP is just more honest (and specific) about their needs.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I'm shocked at how little shit I am getting. The secret was genuine, but I kind of expected to get completely ripped apart.

Hence why, you know, it was a secret and not something I just announced to the whole world with a name attached. :D

[(Anonymous)]

I ♥ you.