fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2742 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2742 ⌋

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Notes:

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From a psychological standpoint? Perfectly valid. The concept of female and male brain differences with regard to function is pretty ephemeral at best, but there are a few clear differences between neurotypical and atypical brain structures that are thought to define sex instincts.

Biological psychology currently tends to extrapolate differences in the size of hypothalamic nuclei as correlating to gender identity. Experimental evidence currently concludes that these structural differences can be induced by controlling horomone levels in pregnant rats (ex. an excess of estrogen in pregnant females will result in XY rats which display species-typical female grooming, mating, and social behaviours as well as appropriate brain changes).

It's not a stretch to think that underdevelopment of other brain areas might lead to a weak or nonexistent gender/sex role concept. If there was, say, a lower than normal concentration of any prenatal sex hormones in utero my guess is that a fetus might well grow up to identify as agendered or asexual.

tl;dr as far as we know there's a biological basis to this, so regardless of whether or not you understand how a person could "feel female" or "feel male" (or neither), there's plenty of evidence that they can and do. Probably because there would be no reason to pay attention to any feeling until something was obviously incongruous or deviant from common behaviours.

That's pretty much how I feel.

Self-identification aside, when people are all "gender dysphorias/neutral genders/etc etc isn't at all a thing! It's made up on Tumblr!" I'm like but... science...

Those people are generally the same ones that bash on religions for ignorign science when it wants to so it's extra funny

Yeah, but you can't blame people for their own ignorance; you can really only hope to educate. It makes me extremely disheartened when supposedly progressive people start spouting off those kind of short-sighted opinions too.

Yep, it's still funny to me that they can't see they're doing the exact same thing, though. Science of all things should be something you can't just pick and choose pieces of!

(And I only mean the people who deny that nonbinary-ness is even a thing, if they're going to say they don't believe everyone on Tumblr who claims to be nb is nb, I can't exactly judge either way. Doesn't really affect me any)

Yeahh I guess that's the thing that prevents me from understanding all this stuff. Cultural constructs I can analyse, but psychology grounded in biology is seriously not my forte.

On the other hand, it kind of makes the situation simpler. At least the existence of non-binary genders can be scientifically proved/disproved/explained - theoretically, anyway.

The only thing that is really barring psychologists from gathering more conclusive data on the subject is the complications that arise when you try to confirm it experimentally (screwing with the brain structure of a person for science is never justified) and the dearth of studies on natural transgender and nonbinary individuals.

Given that these people are such a small percentage of the population and that many do not want to be identified it can be extremely difficult finding participants for studies.

Although, looking at it as a cultural construct is more of an exercise in philosophy anyway imo. What makes a man? What makes a woman? Can anyone really be called a man or a woman if there are so many disparate ideas about what those two things encompass?

>Although, looking at it as a cultural construct is more of an exercise in philosophy anyway imo. What makes a man? What makes a woman? Can anyone really be called a man or a woman if there are so many disparate ideas about what those two things encompass?

That was exactly my problem even before I read your original post. Like, reasonably I can understand how the cultural concept of gender is a thing that matters to people, but trying to connect to it emotionally was a weird and fruitless experience because I'm aware of SO MANY cultural motifs that have a gender flavour.

On the other hand, maybe some people feel really strongly about certain ideas of masculinity or femininity they were raised with. And then it becomes a part of their identity. In some environments, the diversity of gendered concepts isn't nearly as obvious.

Well, like I said in my other post, not understanding how people can feel that way is fine. For the most part I wouldn't expect people to go around feeling "male" or "female". It seems as though the problem really only arises when 2 + 2 = 3, so to speak. In other words, when there's something missing in their gender equation: either physiologically in the case of transgender individuals, or psychosocially as seems to be the case with non-binary non-trans folks who might identify as third gender, agender etc.

If you're lucky enough to have all the components in place I doubt there would be a reason for any such feeling to ever enter into your head unless you were in a social situation where strict gender roles were enforced.

Yes, this makes sense. I'm not sure if I'm just very comfortable with what I have or if I'm a "non-binary non-trans agender" (I don't really think I'd be distressed if I were forced to present as another gender?..), but it's not like I care either way.

Thanks for your explanation; it supplements that thread about the cultural idea of gender very nicely.

You're welcome. And in all honesty the message I'd most like to send to people is:

If you're comfortable with how you currently are there's no real reason to change. If at some point it becomes stressful or a problem, then and only then do you need to worry about it.

This all seems like "sex" to me rather than "gender," and I wonder what your thoughts are on the traditional sociological divide between the two terms, with "sex" referring to everything that's biological/physiological and "gender" referring to everything that's social/cultural.

I don't think it applies to this particular discussion in psychology? When we talk about someone who is transgender in the context of neuroanatomy and biology we talk about someone whose internal concept of their person does not match their secondary sexual characteristics (and sometimes genetic sex). I especially talk about it as having a possible atypical neuroanatomy that is likely a sort of birth defect.

I commented elsewhere that the whole idea of gender as a social construct is a bit of an exercise in philosophy in my book since traditional masculine and feminine ideals are so performative and generally impossible to attain for any given individual. I prefer to deal in topics I can quantify neatly, and treat symptoms that exist rather than discuss vague constructs. Leave the philosophy for the philosophers.

[ SECRET POST #2742 ]

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