fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2758 ]

[ SECRET POST #2758 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2758 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Stormlight Archive]

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03.

[Legend of Galactic Heroes]

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[OFF]

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05.

[Robin Hood]

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06.

[Pretty Little Liars]

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07.

[Orange is the New Black]

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08.

[2NE1's Park Bom]

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[Constantine]

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[Miss Fisher's Mysteries]

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11.

[Firefly]

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[Batman]

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13.

[The Witches. Aliens. Coraline. It.]

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14.

[Ocean's 11]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 048 secrets from Secret Submission Post #394.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/07/22/canada-route-zero-highway-of-tears-demo/

So, basically, a white European male, writing a black American female, in a game about a series of murders of mostly Canadian First Nations women, which is ongoing and unsolved.

Anyone else think this is going to be handled really badly?

For bonus points I'm in an argument with someone who thinks the subject matter isn't offensive compared to games about fictionalized warfare. Fuck me, right?

That is just so unbelieveably tasteless and gross. I've read about the Highway of Tears and it is just so super depressing and horrible. On what planet is making a game about that a good idea?

IS this for real? This person should be stopped. Immediately.

I grew up in BC, am also FN, and I agree with this comment.

What else has this person written?

So, let me guess, you're one of those people who believe writers shouldn't write characters who don't match their personal check boxes and then complains about lack of diversity and representation.

What do I look like, tumblr?

I don't really trust this guy to have done his research. Let alone the fact that he's making a fucking game about an ongoing series of IRL murders and disappearances and given the cited influences I would not be surprised if he made some sort of magical monster be the culprit behind it. And that's just so disappointing and fucked up.

Re: a game about the Highway of Tears

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-23 00:00 (UTC) - Expand

Re: a game about the Highway of Tears

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-23 07:50 (UTC) - Expand

Writing fiction about currently unsolved murders is pretty much impossible to do in good taste.

Edited 2014-07-23 00:05 (UTC)

My hope you were overreacting went down right about the time it said "african-american documentary maker"

Best hope is shitty advice he was told to get more people interested in the game, that won't be reflected in the actual writing/execution. Even then it's gonna be shit, but maybe it won't be for problematic reasons and just regular bad game reasons.

Edited 2014-07-23 00:04 (UTC)

What the fuck.

Because I'm thick, can someone explain what the problem is exactly? I can see two things wrong: First, White European Man writing a Black American Female character, and/or the game being about IRL murders that have not been solved, more specifically on that one, is it because it's too soon, because I'm pretty sure no one cared when L.A. Noire had a whole section on the Black Dahlia murders. Also, what does Canadian First Nations women mean, is that like an organization or a fancy way of saying Native American's who are(in) Canada?

AFAIK the last murder was in 2011. Compared to like 60 years ago with Black Dahlia. So yeah.

"First Nations" is our what of saying "Native (Canadian)" because "Native American" makes no sense.

"First Nations" because these were the first nations prior to colonization stuff. But yeah, what ariakas said.

what does Canadian First Nations women mean

This is kinda why I'm not completely against someone making a (tasteful) game about it. There really does need to be much more awareness about the First Nation people in Canada. In short, yes, they are aboriginals that live in Canada. The problem is that they're treated horribly here. They are our poorest people. Now, there is the argument that if they could choose not to be by assimilating as Canadian citizens and use all the services that are readily available, such as welfare programs. Except I don't believe you should force them into that just so they could have a half decent life. Not after how the government has treated them in the past. It's wrong. The women that disappear in this region are largely uneducated and prostitute themselves just to survive. In truth, it's a sad state of affairs.

Because it's still a real, tragic thing that has affected, and is affecting, women and families here in BC?

Re: a game about the Highway of Tears

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-23 00:49 (UTC) - Expand

Sorry, but a good writer should be able to write anything. You gain knowledge on what you are writing about by researching the hell out of your subjects.

Or to put it another, take one white male, now this guy has spent the last three years extensively researching including interviewing every First Nation person he could meet. He has put in hundreds of hours following cops and piggy back on Canadian police cases where the murder victims were First Nation women. Say he is writing about an black American FBI agent. He even flew over to J. Edgar Hoover building and shadowed FBI agents who were black women.

Now you have two other writers, one happens to be a black woman but is American and not Canadian. She hasn't done much research other than some mild skimming online about Canadian First Nation women. And you have another woman, a Canadian First Nation woman who has not even set foot in America. Her research to the FBI is also what she can find on the internet as well as from movies and television shows. She has not even met a black American in her life.

Now I ask you, out of the three who do you think would write the best book?

People don't realize how much footwork is needed to write a book. They think you just sit down and write. You have someone like Chuck Palahnuik who has said, "Yeah, it took me three weeks to write my book but a year and a half to research it." That's what good writing is like. It's a huge pile of research.

The last murder was in 2011. I don't care who is doing it, but WTF. Three years.

Re: a game about the Highway of Tears

mekkio - 2014-07-23 00:28 (UTC) - Expand

Re: a game about the Highway of Tears

ariakas - 2014-07-23 00:19 (UTC) - Expand

Re: a game about the Highway of Tears

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-23 01:11 (UTC) - Expand

Re: a game about the Highway of Tears

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-23 05:53 (UTC) - Expand

It could be handled badly, but I don't see why I should be offended about it. You're kind of saying that the guy making it has a negative for not only being a foreign white guy, but writing about topical shit. AFAIK, this isn't some edgy Bowling For Columbine RPG borefest :U

Could be tasteless for sure. But the idea behind it has me interested, so I'll be playing the demo later tonight.

Edited (ar pee gee. i'm talking about a video game that happened.) 2014-07-23 00:16 (UTC)

I don't think being a European male makes him automatically unable to write from the POV of his main character, or unable to treat topics like these properly.

The fact that he's making a video game about it three years after the last murder, makes me question his judgment at all.

Let's create a timed escape game based on WTC in 2004!

I'm skeptical but I've seen good "game" designs for teaching people about the Shoah and Middle Passage. Granted they were not fun, not commercial, and arguably not really "games" because the winning condition is to throw the board in the air, walk to the nearest library, and start learning more about why that happened.

This project though seems like an exercise in fail.

I'm all for bringing more awareness to the First Nations living situations here in Canada. But after reading the article and reading the developer's post about the game (Haida mythos? Are you fucking kidding me??), I'm not confident that it would be handled well. It has nothing to do with where he's from or his race nor does it have anything to do with him writing an African-American female character. I just don't think he gets it. It sounds like his writing is based on just the premise of the disappearances and made it into a CSI episode. There is a lot more to these crimes than I think he realizes. In order for him to produce a tasteful game he'd need to include themes of racism, government corruption, persecution, poverty, depression, etc. The First Nations' story in Canada is an absolute horror story that's still ongoing. Most of these girls were living that and to tell it properly would be to go deeper into the what their world is like. I don't think this developer will and he should really rethink his entire game concept.

I am so incredibly sick of the type of attitude you're expressing. I'm the same anon who recommended a book called "The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks" a week or two ago. You know who that was written by? A book about poor black America? A highly privileged white woman who drove all over the damn country trying to make sure Henrietta Lacks' story was told. You probably would have told her it was inappropriate to even try. Seriously, fuck that attitude.

Re: a game about the Highway of Tears

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-23 02:48 (UTC) - Expand

Re: a game about the Highway of Tears

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-23 02:48 (UTC) - Expand

Re: a game about the Highway of Tears

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-23 22:02 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-07-23 02:56 (UTC) - Expand

Re: a game about the Highway of Tears

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-23 21:57 (UTC) - Expand

Re: a game about the Highway of Tears

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-23 08:39 (UTC) - Expand

Re: a game about the Highway of Tears

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-23 12:18 (UTC) - Expand

Re: a game about the Highway of Tears

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-23 19:08 (UTC) - Expand

Re: a game about the Highway of Tears

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-23 21:52 (UTC) - Expand

Re: a game about the Highway of Tears

(Anonymous) - 2014-07-23 21:54 (UTC) - Expand

Just imagine the real killer getting his hands on the game. That's a very creepy thought.

From the game creator:

Thank you very much for your replies, they have really made me think about how to approach this story. I never meant to offend anyone, but I can totally understand from your replies that someone feels that way, and if so, I'm honestly sorry.

When I first heard about the Highway of Tears I was as horrified as anyone to learn that so much evil can exist, and that it repeatedly struck in a place already full of tragedy. I've read through the official Board of Inquiry report on the murders, plus a lot of articles about the events, the situation around Vancouver, the psychology of serial killers, and I've watched several documentaries, so I am aware of the poverty, drug addiction, survival sex trade, aboriginal discrimination and downright indifference and failure on the part of the RCMP in taking decisive action, especially in the Pickton case, where so much tragedy could have been avoided if they had taken it seriously.

As I read more and more about it I felt like I had to somehow raise awareness, and tell a story that at least introduces people to these events. As an outsider I concede that I do not have the personal connection to these events that would give me credibility in writing a story like this, but I would never use the outline of these events as a cheap way to create a 'cool mysterious story'. But you raise a valid point that perhaps because of that I had better no try in the first place as it risks offending people or not doing the tragedy justice. And that would be the last thing I want to do.

So in that light, I agree with the suggestions that it is better to distance myself from the real-world connection. The story in my game was already fictional, not referencing any real victims or specific cases, and set in a fictional town, so in effect the story could already stand on its own without the true story angle. I want people to be able to enjoy my game and learn something from it, without feeling personally offended by it because of the weight of a cultural trauma hanging over it.

I was also aware that the Haida people live in a slightly different region, so changing locations should also mitigate that disparity somewhat. There is only one specific fable from their heritage I am referencing, not a sweeping generalization of their culture at large or anything like that, so I have faith I can handle that well.

Do you guys think that would ease your worries, or is there more I should reconsider? Right now the game is still quite malliable, so I am 100% open to suggestions, or if someone wants to be a consultant on the narrative part to make sure I treat a subject like this with the gravitas it deserves, I'd be thankful.

New titles I'm considering: Highway of the Lost, Augier's Peak, The Forsaken. Any other suggestions are welcomed.

I hope this is a good solution, and if anyone want to discuss anything related to this or trade thoughts on the subject, feel free to comment or email me.

Regarding the feedback on game-specific stuff like art and GUI: thanks too for the kind words and the constructive criticism, I will respond more in-depth to those things once the matter of the story and subject has been resolved. I won't move forward with those things too much until I know people are content with the new direction.

Thanks,
~Tim

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