fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2769 ]

[ SECRET POST #2769 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2769 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 064 secrets from Secret Submission Post #396.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
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real life trans people, especially kids, not getting the help they need because people like to pretend they don't exist is probably more shitty.

People running around pretending to be trans and outright attacking actual trans people, behaving like total assholes and giving real trans people a bad name, resulting in even less people taking their issues seriously and dismissing them is equally shitty, in my opinion.

That's not a real issue that exists. Accusing "fake trans people" (kids trying to figure out their identity on tumblr) of making it worse for all of us is just a way of trying to delude yourself into thinking mainstream society isn't disgusted by you for what you are. Show me one doctor who refused someone HRT because of a 13 year old with a blog.

Not doctors, and society as a whole. But once those "kids trying to figure out their identity on tumblr" go around harassing real trans people and send death threats and other cute things like that? It's still a shitty thing to happen. Maybe not on the same general scale, but just because fewer people do it doesn't make it better. And for the people who get harassed, who get those threats and all this hate, it's just as real an issue as offline harassment.

genuinely curious, under what scenarios have you seen "real trans people" harassed by "fake" trans people? are you talking about truscum demanding dysphoria out of these supposed "fake" trans people, because as a dysphoria-having trans person i can guarantee you are listening to the wrong group of people.

nayrt

No one is talking about some truscum crap. We're talking about people that ID with gender identities that were literally created as a joke (i.e nanogirl).

I mean technically gender is a social construct for a lot of people, and we could make up "lotion bottle gender" and claim to be trans and identify as lotion-bottle-gendered. Which is what a lot of tumblr kids have done with shit like nanogirls and nanoboys.

There is literally no end or constraint to the amount of gender identities you can create and identify with. And a good amount of the people identifying as shit like lotion-gendered like to use the lolbatshit nature of their ID to harass people, because there's no argument you can use against the fuckwits that won't seemingly erase more legitimate gender identities. Meanwhile the fuckhead lotion-genders, nanogirls, etc get to pick on trans men and say they're "worse than cishets" for identifying as male, and that they're perpetuating oppression by doing so, and "why would anyone choose to identify as male?"

Yup. That pretty well seperates the lotion-gendered and nanogirl types from real trans people. Lotion-genders really do believe that being trans is a choice and that the gender identity people choose is totally up to whim and personal inclination.

Does that answer your "Just curious" comment and your earlier one? And take care of your assumption that we're all just dumbo meanies who don't know anything about trans issues and only know the mainstream knowledge? Do you believe that being trans is a choice? Like the tumblr kids do?

ok but people who identify as shit like that in jest arent trying to figure out their identity, as was mentioned upthread, theyre purposely mocking trans people. no mention of that was made anywhere in this thread. you are only seeing what you want to see and assuming everyone else is on the same page.

im also not entirely sure where youre getting the idea that "nanogenderism" was created as a joke when it's an offset of demigenderism, both of which are taken seriously by those who identify as them. im not going to get into whether or not it's a "real" identity but assuming theyre joking and mocking them accordingly does no justice for "real" trans people like myself.

furthermore, i dont see why youre under the impression that any trans person thinks being trans is a choice. thats a very clear cisgender opinion, and it's been used to oppress trans people for decades. it's not that one's identity is up to whim it's that some folks ave a difficult time finding a label that they feel 100% suits them. youre mistaking this exploration with a declaration of choice where there is none.

to tie this back into the main point - none of these identities do any systematic damage to transgenderism when they arent made as jokes. the jokes themselves tend to come from cis people who already dont see trans people as human, and in that case, why are you blaming trans people for that?

Edited 2014-08-03 17:46 (UTC)

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-08-03 18:08 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

saku - 2014-08-03 18:38 (UTC) - Expand

It is an issue that exists, though. It's all over Tumblr.

what's all over tumblr? people not getting hormones because of noun pronouns?

Oooh, you're one of those pillocks.
GFY.

If people are convinced trans people aren't real because of a teenage girl on Tumblr, they didn't believe it in the first place.

Yeah, it's more a case of confirmation bias than anything else.
But I would really like those kids to grow up and realise that they are absolutely NOT helping the issue they profess to be hollering about.

Yeah I think that's kind of the point? Most of mainstream society isn't that clued into trans issues and what being trans is. When they go looking or stumble across someone identifying as "cloud gender" it doesn't exactly help convince them that being trans is a real thing that should be taken seriously.

Does this actually happen though? I mean, I rarely see those sort of posts and I am a regular Tumblr user with a fair knowledge of discourse around trans issues.

nayrt

depends where you're at, really. it seems more common in the anime-centered parts, but i've also seen a fair of the stuff the people mock ending up being from troll accounts too.

who "pretends" to be trans though?

honestly if somebody using weird pronouns or whatever makes certain people genuinely not want to support transgenderism or not take it seriously then the issue is with those certain people. call it bizarre or annoying or a phase - stuff like that is a nonissue. kids doing shit like this didnt cause my coworker to go on a rant about god giving me the right body and me needing to accept it. transphobia isnt ever caused by "fake trans people." people who get that worked up over it were already transphobic to begin with, dont let them fool you into blaming trans people for their own hate.

The kids on tumblr who say shit like "I'm a female presenting female bodied person without dysphoria, but I'm totally non-binary/trans/whatever" and belittle actual trans people for their very real issues.

And I never said they cause transphobia. But a group is always judged by its loudest and most obnoxious members. That's not nice, and that's not good, but it still happens. A lot of people can distinguish between "asshole because asshole" and "asshole because member of a group of assholes" but a lot of people can't or won't.

quick, relevant question: are you trans? you dont have to answer, but im hoping you arent trying to speak on behalf of trans people when something like this only affects you insofar that you may take trans issues irrationally less seriously bc of some tumblr kid.

disclaimer, i have dysphoria, but youre trans if you dont feel that you are the gender you were assigned at birth. it doesnt have to tear you up inside or ruin your life. dysphoria being a necessity is a myth perpetuated by truscum and people who arent trans.

i wouldnt put such a burden on some kid on tumblr who may be trans or may not be based on your own definition of transgenderism. if people see them and decide they cant take trans issues seriously, then we need to educate those people, because the problem lies within them, not some tumblr kid who most certainly isnt fueling the murder of transgender prostitutes, nor causing the media's collective lack of accurate representation, nor the denial of trans health care due to service providers' bias and institutional phobia.

if you dont understand what it means to be trans, then your idea of transgenderism is probably something as follows: someone "born a man" or "born a woman" who "doesnt like being a man/woman" and wants to change and hates their bodies every single day, lives a miserable unproductive life bc theyre too preoccupied hating themselves, must undergo surgery or clearly didnt feel all that trans. these are societal stereotypes that comprise the only transgender "exposure" a lot of people get, so it's easy to write off nonbinary individuals, male- or female-passing/presenting nonbinary folks, people whose gender identity is fluid, et cetera because youre only exposed to a certain image of transgenderism and anything else is special snowflakey. i mean i get your point, in that some identities, seem really bizarre or "made up," and i cant say i dont sometimes feel the same about certain identities (though i keep that to myself bc rude), but im not the gender police. nobody is. gender is strange and always has been, and there are more identities than just cis man/woman and trans man/woman. when faced with someone different, your first reaction shouldnt be to write them off as doing a disservice to "real trans people," because if you really think that then your idea of real trans people is incorrect. - and thats not the hypothetical tumblr kid's fault.

Edited 2014-08-03 16:27 (UTC)

The problem is that it's also sort of dickish to assume someone needs help, especially if it's a celeb you only know about through the filter of media.

In Shiloh's case, hypothetically:

Maybe the kid IS trans, the parents know, but are just not telling them media because that's how they protect their child.

Maybe the kid will grow up to be a butch lesbian, but she's not at the point where romantic attraction's even an issue..

Maybe the kid is a straight girl who dislikes dresses and dolls, and likes dinosaurs.

Maybe in ANY of those 3 cases the kid is not really old enough to care.

The point is

a) Maybe the kid is getting help, it's just not spewed all over the press

b) Maybe the kid doesn't need help because it's not (yet) an issue. SOME kids will come out as trans at age 5, but certainly not all of them. I know someone who didn't realize she wanted to transition until her late 40's.

c) And yeah, maybe the kid is trans and could do with help, but then it's still not the internet's duty to analyze that.

d) And there's a myriad of other options not even mentioned here.

The fact is, no-one knows (except maybe the family) but in the mean time this child, who hasn't even chosen to be in the spotlight, has their pics analyzed by the fans and by paparazzi which is sort of gross.

And I'm not talking about simple headcanons, but about people who actually choose to write about this, sometimes for a professional medium.

I get that having positive role models makes it easier for non-famous trans people to get help, and that it really sucks when they don't, but bombarding a celeb's child as your role model, when you haven't so much as met them real life, is sort of shitty, too.

Edited 2014-08-02 22:10 (UTC)

Was the professional article really in support of that kid being trans, or was it just moral panic about a girl being messed up by her parents giving her boy toys. Because that happens a lot. See also: don't paint your baby's nursery pink, it'll make him gay.

The one I read wasn't in support, it was mostly just wildly speculating.

So why are you acting like anyone is forcing transness on her?

Because I guess I find the speculation itself bad enough? Just let the kid be a kid?

And I have seen some blogs that DID claim she MUST be trans, but I don't count those as professional media.

Seriously, just imagine being that kid - regardless of what gender or sexual orientation she'll turn out being and reading those articles. It must be really creepy finding out random strangers were obsessed enough with your gender identity to write about it profusely.

Yes, claiming to know that a child you never met is trans is a bad thing. Assuming nobody is ever trans, vehemently arguing against suggestions that someone (even a child you never met) may be trans is also bad. Because they might be. This argument has nothing to do with transness, it's about leaving celebrities' kids to grow up in peace. If a shitty newspaper clutches it's pearls over a girl liking boy toys it's ok to suggest that trans people exist and don't deserve the pearl clutching.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-08-03 05:35 (UTC) - Expand

DA
I agree. I've seen quite a bit of claims (General media: She's doing femininity wrong so bad parenting, Online community: He's obviously trans so bad world for not accepting my dictate) and it sucks every way you see it. Children should be allowed to develop and grow without feeling pressure from outside forces to conform to whatever those outside forces believe they should be/do.

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