[ SECRET POST #2783 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2783 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 069 secrets from Secret Submission Post #398.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - random pattern image ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

I don't watch this show but...

[(Anonymous)]

If Ward is Hydra, doesn't that make him a Nazi?

Why would anyone think the fans would like this?

A bad guy can be likable, but a Nazi's kindaaaa difficult to pull back from…

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[(Anonymous)]

Current Hydra is unrelated to Nazis.

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[(Anonymous)]

But…it was founded as a Nazi science division. That's…pretty awful. Like, you can't really just say, "Oh we're not like them anymore."

People still don't wear the same style of mustache as Hitler because it's too reminiscent of the Nazis. And this is an entire organization FOUNDED by them -- not facial hair.

I just don't see how they can successfully pull that off without causing Massive cognitive dissonance.

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[(Anonymous)]

They don't follow the Nazi ideology.

They don't use Nazi symbols.

They don't have a hard on for Hitler.

They have nothing to do with Germany or the Third Reich anymore.

They aren't Nazis.

In fact the current Hydra is more similar to the American government than the Nazis.

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[(Anonymous)]

"In fact the current Hydra is more similar to the American government than the Nazis."

It's kind of funny that you mention that because a lot of the Nazis eugenics ideology was started in the US. Come full circle then?

But even so…like I pointed out with my mustache example, you can't exactly have a VERY direct tie to the Nazis and expect people to completely dissociate the two groups.

The Hitler 'stache was meant as a humorous example, but it perfectly illustrates this -- it's just facial hair. But wear it and everyone will DEFINITELY judge you.

Hydra can't call itself "Hydra" without having the massive associations with Nazi Germany.

I could understand your point a bit better if they reformed a new group and just stole Nazis technology or something.

But if they're still part of the same organization (an organization that was still active in the latest Captain America movie) then the ties are inextricable.

I mean, they were saying "Hail Hydra!" for goodness sake -- which is clearly based off Heil Hitler.

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[insanenoodlyguy]

Even some of the Nazi's aren't so nazi anymore (He's about to kill a Skrull in this comic)

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[(Anonymous)]

And yet tons of people buy BOSS products.

Re: I don't watch this show but...t

[(Anonymous)]

Not really. Hydra's kind of like the worse-than-nazis that Marvel came up with to keep from appropriating reality or going Godwin.

Re: I don't watch this show but...t

[(Anonymous)]

so in what way is "worse-than-nazis" somehow more likely to appeal to fans than "nazis"?

Re: I don't watch this show but...t

[insanenoodlyguy]

There less racist evil and more generic super-evil

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[(Anonymous)]

Hydra aren't Nazis.

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[(Anonymous)]

Well they aren't ACTUAL Nazis since they're not affiliated with the Third Reich, but it's an organization created by the Nazis so I can't really see how that's not going to enormously taint everyone involved.

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[(Anonymous)]

My feeling is that they're separated from the Nazis, not just in terms of the fact that they're different organizations in practical terms, but in terms of what they do as a storytelling organization. I don't think they have any real political content, they're pretty much just Evil Badguy Superhero Group, because that's how Marvel has seen them and wrote them and used them.

Just my opinion though, I guess.

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[(Anonymous)]

I guess…

But being an offshoot of Nazis has MUCH worse implications than just being a generic evil group. Being part of a generic evil group makes it easier to redeem them given the plasticity of their motivations.

But Nazis are basically the scum of the Earth -- horrid ideology, horrid actions, horrid place in history. It's not even like Communism where you can at least argue that *theoretically* it could work without corrupt leaders. Nazi ideology is basically rotten to the core.

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[klutzygirl]

It's a little more complicated than that - Ward was abused by his parents and brother growing up. He finally snapped for some unknown reason and tried to burn down the house with his brother in it.

SHIELD agent turned Hydra traitor proceeded to kidnap said sixteen year old from juvie (he agreed but still a minor), abandoned him in the woods with only a dog for five years, killed said dog when he ordered Ward to do it and he couldn't, and physically and emotionally (possibly sexually too since some of his behavior is raising red flags with abuse survivors who watch the show) abused him for the next fifteen years. Pretty bad case of Stockholm Syndrome in action.

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[diet_poison]

I think it was five months, not five years.

Not trying to downplay any of this at all, just wanting to be canonically correct haha

also, maybe this makes my priorities whack, but the scene with the dog was literally the hardest scene for me to watch in the entire first season and I may have had to simply stop if Buddy had died D:

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[klutzygirl]

Garrett was initially gone for six months but then he vanished again and Ward was stuck in the woods for another five years (probably with periodic visits from Garrett).

Yes! I was screaming "DON'T KILL THE DOG" at the screen every time Buddy popped up.

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[insanenoodlyguy]

No, he left him out int he woods for about six months... then spent the next five years training him.

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[(Anonymous)]

I thought Ward killed the dog. He just couldn't do it while looking in his eyes. Paralleling how he couldn't kill Fitz and Simmons while looking them in the eye.

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[diet_poison]

No, he shot the gun into the woods. Garrett thought Ward killed the dog because he heard the shot, and the dog, being a trained retriever, ran immediately in the direction it was fired, thus saving his life because he didn't follow Ward back to Garrett. I thought it was made pretty clear and I'd say I'd go back to watch it to see if I got it right for sure but I really don't want to rewatch that scene. :/

He still abandoned Buddy, which is awful, but he didn't kill him.

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[(Anonymous)]

Someone still shot the dog. Whether it was Ward or Garrett was unclear, but at the end, after Ward fired the gun in the air, we see a rifle scope trained on the dog running through the woods, and then the sound of a shot.

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[(Anonymous)]

This is why I wrote this secret.....

I pretty much posted something on my Tumblr explaining that if you watched Captain America, HYDRA started out affliated with the Nazi in the films. However it was revealed the Red Skull/Hydra was in leage with their own. Modern Hydra has their own philosophy.

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[(Anonymous)]

You guys only think Nazis are the worst because genocide is only bad when white people are killed.

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[(Anonymous)]

OP again as a Jew I find Genocide of ALL people no matter what color is horrible. Whether it's in Rwanda, Cambodia or Germany absolutely dreadful.

Re: I don't watch this show but...

[(Anonymous)]

Wow. Please remove yourself from this planet. Please.