[ SECRET POST #2783 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2783 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 069 secrets from Secret Submission Post #398.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - random pattern image ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[ariakas]

I'm just... kind of curious as to how they think having a sad backstory in any way makes Ward more redeemable than if he was evil for shits and giggles. There are plenty of abuse survivors out there who didn't turn into murderers and/or walked away from their abusers. Having a sad childhood doesn't make the people he killed (or tried to kill) any less dead.

To me the very fact that he isn't simply rotting in prison for the rest of his natural life, let alone that they're even considering bringing him back on the team, should earn the whole team (and most of SHIELD for that matter) a Darwin Award.

[(Anonymous)]

Is it just a sad childhood or brainwashing? Not that it necessarily makes returning him to the team any better an idea...

[ariakas]

Some mixture of both? And either way Ward is irredeemably compromised, and SHIELD continues to be worst covert organization anyone has ever conceived.

[klutzygirl]

It's actually both.

Ward was abused by his parents and brother growing up. After he tried to burn the house down with his brother in (he had another brother and a sister) it for some unknown reason, he was sent to juvie.

SHIELD agent turned Hydra traitor kidnapped him from juvie (Ward agreed to go but he was sixteen years old and a minor), dumped him in the woods for five years with only a dog for companionship, then proceeded to physically and emotionally abuse him for the next fifteen years. Brainwashing and a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome.

[peablossom]

IA with all of this. And I get very irritated by the people that equate Ward with Bucky and go well if Bucky can get redeemed, and did all this horrible shit, then how can you not see it for Ward?

Because Ward chose to do all the shit he did, that's why.

[ariakas]

Uh, Bucky is a POW held against his will who literally cannot remember his past or his loyalties, forced to comply through chemical torture. The very moment he starts to shake off their direct control he immediate resists.

Yeah that's pretty comparable to a willing, knowing, Hydra agent helping his friends and father figure to murder, kidnap, and torture people. Because he has sad feels.

To a dumbass, anyway.

[peablossom]

Pretty much.

[amber_protocol]

lmfao, mte.

[klutzygirl]

Ward didn't have a choice, though, since John Garrett fucking kidnapped and abused him for fifteen years straight.

Abuse is a form of brainwashing and it actually exists in the real world, unlike what happened with Bucky. They were both brainwashed, just in different ways.

[peablossom]

I acknowledge that it can be interpreted that way, but I didn't get that from the show, personally. Maybe it was a choice in the writing or the acting, I don't know. In any case, he shouldn't be back working for SHIELD next season (as he inevitably will be) even if it is because he should be getting massive therapy and help.

[klutzygirl]

The showrunners and actors themselves (Brett, Chloe, Bill Paxton himself, and others) have confirmed themselves that Garrett was abusive.

Moments where we see it in action:

1 (clear emotional abuse)

2 (he literally cannot function without orders)

3

4

That scene where he beat him "for the cover"? Not the first time based on their behavior, and Garrett went above and fucking beyond. It's terrifying.

And some of his behavior has also raised red flags with abuse survivors who watch the show and are worried that there might have been some sexual abuse involved too (prior to Lorelei).

[ariakas]

Ward is an adult now, and many adult victims of abuse have walked away from their abusers and chosen different paths through life. You're talking like Ward has no agency here, when everything that happened was a direct result of his choices (to set his house on fire rather than run away or go to CPS, to follow Garrett out of juvie, to stay in Alaska for those years waiting for him to return instead of just hitching a ride with the next campers back to civilization, to continue to follow him after he revealed who and what he was and what he was capable of, not to betray him to Coulson and the others, etc.).

Whereas Bucky literally had no choices, and no memories, and when finally given a choice and some memory, he chooses to save Cap and flee Hydra.

These are not even remotely comparable situations. Ward was influenced. Bucky was forced.

[diet_poison]

This is where I really have to disagree. Yes, Ward's past was horrible and I pity teenage!Ward for the things that happened to him, and John Garrett deserves any and all shit he gets for how he treated the guy. But Ward still made choices. The past influences who he is as a person and to a certain extent might have made a redemption for him possible and believable, except he was pretty over the top and demonstrated some frankly sociopathic tendencies as an adult. A redemption might still be possible but only with some reservation - he better not be accepted back in the team ever, for example. But he made choices as an adult that he has to take responsibility for. He's capable of determining right from wrong and chooses to do wrong anyway (excellent example is his ejection of FitzSimmons from the plane).

[(Anonymous)]

YES THIS OMG. +1000000000000000000

[klutzygirl]

Because John Garrett abused Ward until the day he died. He never stopped being abused and he's suffering from a pretty clear case of Stockholm Syndrome.

And yeah, he needs to pay for his crimes with jail time since the abuse doesn't excuse his actions but he also needs a shitload of therapy. And his psychopathic abuser is why he's a murderer. He needs a ton of help and to apologize once he starts getting better.

[ariakas]

Sure, I could see him getting therapy in prison and eventually overcoming his past trauma. That would be realistic, and believable.

Him getting within 100 miles of a SHIELD facility ever again, let alone returning to active duty is facepalm-through-forehead-tier unbelievably, irredeemably stupid.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, I'm thinking it's going to be a plot about using Ward to find HYDRA bases and personnel while keeping him on a short leash. At least I REALLY HOPE SO.

[diet_poison]

ia.

it would be great for Ward as a person if he learned to be a good person and do good outside of SHIELD and away from the people he hurt, but he should never ever be considered a part of SHIELD again, and if he thinks he's entitled to that at any point, he isn't really redeemed nor does he really, truly regret what happened and understand the ramifications. If it actually sinks in what happened, he should actively try to stay away from SHIELD.

I wouldn't mind a situation where he just went to jail and I could headcanon all of that for his future, but since he's coming back as a main cast member, I kinda think it's not going to look anything like that at all...

[herpymcderp]

Stockholm syndrome

I see you using that term, but I don't think you know what it means. You're correct in assuming there might be some kind of mental health issue at play, but it's not Stockholm syndrome. The difference between a syndrome and a disorder is that a syndrome is a temporary disturbance in thought or behaviour that almost always spontaneously resolves when the psychological trigger is no longer present. With a disorder, some amount of permanency is assumed.

I don't even watch this show, but you can't have Stockholm syndrome fifteen years after an event. PTSD, certainly, but you're just wrong about your assumptions here.

[klutzygirl]

I know what it means and abuse survivors (and some people who even work in the mental health field) who watch the show see the Stockholm Syndrome.

[replicantangel]

I agree, and I'm really annoyed they're obviously going for a redemption arc with him. Maybe it's just mediocre writing, but he's not acting as if he's brainwashed or has Stockholm Syndrome. He has seen the "good" side of things and has continued to work for Hydra, killing many, many people without remorse. If they're going to redeem him, they're going to have to put forth a hell of a lot more effort than a crappy childhood to convince me that a *psychopath* can re-integrate with the team. Because he is a psychopath - he has no remorse or guilt about his actions. Skye is the only one that he's felt bad about hurting.

But I'm sure he'll be back and "redeemed". Back to the cardboard character he was before his evil reveal (which actually made him somewhat interesting - I personally want him to stay evil). I like Triplett *tons* more. Why can't we keep him instead?

[(Anonymous)]

Completely agree.

And I'm not even sure he cared about hurting Skye after she turned on him, if his threat to "come over there and take what she wouldn't give him" is any indication.

[diet_poison]

I disagree about the idea that he's no more redeemable because of his past. I do think that makes a difference. I don't think it erases his responsibility and I am worried they'll do his redemption badly and try to make it like the shit he did never happened. If he's going to be redeemed he still needs to stay 100 miles away from SHIELD and be repentant about the shit he did - actually repentant, not just paying it lip service.

[(Anonymous)]

Because he's a pretty white boy and that's enough for some of these fucking idiots.

[(Anonymous)]

semi attractive white dudes always get a pass, just look at the Loki fandom

i don't see half the tears for the black man that was forced to work for Hydra to save his son and ended up scarred for life as I do for poor woobie Ward