[ SECRET POST #2797 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2797 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 085 secrets from Secret Submission Post #400.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

NS, NF, etc.

[ 1 - not!secrets ]

[sarillia]

What's with the assumption that if you care about those things then it's the only thing you care about? I see it all the time and it seems like such a strange assumption to make. I'm sure it's true sometimes but I'm equally sure that it's not always true.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Caring about them is fine. Writing a story wtih that as it's purpose is, a lot of the times, going to mean your primary focus is making sure that representation is properly met. This usually results in the story either A. Spending way to much time focusing on how the character is most assuredly black/gay/trans/whatever as opposed to every other aspect of their character, B. getting really, really preachy to the distraction of actual enjoyment, or c. both.

And it's been that way before SJW was even a term (read the old star trek fanfiction archives and you'll find all sorts of stuff)

[sarillia]

What if it's just one of the many purposes of your story? Other people seem to be seeing a dichotomy where I don't.

[(Anonymous)]

This. Issuefic can be done, but most writers, including the ones who get paid, don't have the chops to pull it off.

[cushlamochree]

I disagree.

[(Anonymous)]

If you make a secret just to inform everyone of how they're doing it wrong, it will be evident in every sentence of your secret that you don't bother to hide this opinion and are only looking for a soapbox

[(Anonymous)]

Depends on how they go about it. I mean if it a huge obvious thing like all those shitty "YOU NEED TO KNOW GROOT'S PRONOUNS PETER!" then yeah, it will be shit. Or if they call a character 'demisexual'. Like they actually use it in the story or have a character call themselves that (once read a fic where Steve tells Bucky he is demisexual. I had to back button out it was so stupid). Unless that character is a teenage girl who lives on Tumblr and thinks that is a real thing.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, about the same for me. When it suddenly launches into a thinly veiled author tract about those things, then I'm completely thrown out of the story and my suspension of disbelief is kind of gone.

This 'Suddenly, Blatant Author Tract' thing is one reason why I don't read fan fic anymore these days, unless it's recced by three or more people.

[mechanosapience]

This is why most Christian rock sucks, too. Too much focus on the message, not enough focus on aesthetics.

[ex_mek82]

Oh Lord, do I agree there. I'd rather have more Christian rock bands like Red and Flyleaf than, say, TobyMac or whatever. The message is there, but it's not overly treacly and in-your-face to be offputting to even people who share similar sentiments.

[sarillia]

Aww, but TobyMac's music is so cute! I feel that way about so much really earnest, corny Christian music.

TIL Flyleaf is a Christian band.

[elephantinegrace]

This makes two things I've loved for years that are apparently Chrisitan-themed. Am I just very oblivious or is the message very subtle?

[brightblueink]

Well, it's that, and it's also that the Christian music industry is hyper-focused on "positive, not challenging, alternatives to mainstream popular music." (Seriously, as a teen growing up in a Christian household most of the magazines I subscribed to would mention modern rock bands like "If you like Popular Band Y you should listen to Christian Band X instead, they sound just like them BUT THEY'RE HOLIER." I'm exaggerating they didn't say holier, but the implication was that secular bands were only about sex/drugs/violence/etc

In fact two Christian bands I loved as a kid, Luna Halo and Earthsuit, got dropped by their Christian record label because they were "too weird." :( ...Hilariously both have gone on to have mild success spectacularly (Luna Halo got attention because Taylor Swift covered one of their songs, some of the members of Earthsuit went on to found MUTEMATH.)

tl;dr the Christian record industry (or really Christian media in general) pushes for homogenization and that also contributes to how bad Christian music has gotten.

Agreed

[(Anonymous)]

The people who do this are basically the SJW version of Ayn Rand.

[(Anonymous)]

I have to agree. I think it's fine to incorporate certain social justice concepts if it actually makes sense for the characters and it's integrated well but it seems like most of the people who do it are just after brownie points and want to show everyone how progressive they are. Like, I've seen a lot of massively OOC fics where the characters will go on a soap box rant about the importance of respecting demiromantic/agender/bigender/[insert any other label] people and it comes off as incredibly stilted and it's hard to imagine most characters saying things like that.

[(Anonymous)]

You sound so angry, nonny.

Shitty authors have always existed, and shitty authors will continue to exist. And some of them will be popular. SJ stuff isn't going to affect that much.

So go find yourself a non-SJ author and quit putting yourself through such obvious torture.

[(Anonymous)]

I completely agree.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, look, an endless circle of judging...

[jaybie_jarrett]

Okay so I don't agree with how angry this secret is and I don' like how it calls certain people a "waste"

but I do agree that if you're basically writing a story where the characters are being used to preach a point or make a point, then that's a problem. But um it's not exclusive to SJWs because I've seen all SORTS of author tract fics. Like stories where an OC comes in and converts the canon characters to Christianity in a really obnoxious preachy way.

So yeah. Don't write a sermon, write a story that just happens to brush on an issue.

It's not bad to approach issues in your stories just don't get really ham handed about it.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

I'd say the difference between Pullman on the one hand and Lewis and Tolkien isn't that Pullman is preachy. It's that Lewis and Tolkien (generally, not always) rise above a bar where their preachyness flies under the radar.

Stories should have a point, which is a conflict. If the story goes nowhere and does nothing, it's not really a story.

[jaybie_jarrett]

Hm yes that's true.

Might I interest you in Upton Sinclair's The Jungle?

[elephantinegrace]

It can be called a lot of things, "terrible" is not one of them.

Most books are terrible. Most fanfiction is terrible. Most writing is terrible, no matter what the reason. But saying that a particular type of writing or a certain reason for writing is always terrible is just inaccurate. Even Mary Sues can be done well (Batman, for example).

Re: Might I interest you in Upton Sinclair's The Jungle?

[(Anonymous)]

I never really understood why Batman gets called a Mary Sue. Like, maybe in some mediums, but the comics avert it a lot of the time. He's probably one of the most psychologically fucked up people in DC, he's been criticized in universe for all the shit he puts his numerous Robins through, Gotham still sucks ass no matter what he does, and in some issues a lot of Gotham citizens outright blame him for all the villains in the first place. I think Superman is probably a better example but even he has arcs that averts it.

Re: Might I interest you in Upton Sinclair's The Jungle?

[(Anonymous)]

IDK, I'd say the Socialist message at the very end of the book is really ham-handed