[ SECRET POST #340 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #340 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Posting for Shahni! And early because I've got pseuicide class.

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 150 secrets from Secret Submission Post #049.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 4 ] broken links, [ 1 2] not!secrets, 0 not!fandom.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Wednesday, December 12th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[dorknessrising.livejournal.com]

Well yes, but there are these things, see, called "scroll keys" and "back buttons" that allow one who does not like yaoi to avoid it quite easily, by either backing off the page or scrolling past the unwanted content.

I used to have the exact same attitude as the OP. I eventually grew up and realized that no, fandom is not All About Me. I just skip over it if I don't like it. And if I have trouble finding what I want? Oh well. Try harder.

For the record, I'm a mostly-gen/hetficcer who goes for the occasional crackpairing slash. I still have no sympathy for "YAOI RUINZ TEH FANDOM" BS.

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[(Anonymous)]

Oh hai, that scroll thing. Would it work for secrets you don't like too, perhaps?

Why, I believe it might. Better, perhaps, than macro wank!

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[dorknessrising.livejournal.com]

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[(Anonymous)]

I do hope you posted that for yourself, because I am laughing very hard at your inability to ignore me even after telling me to ignore teh yaoiz.

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[dorknessrising.livejournal.com]

I'm laughing equally hard at your inability to ignore comments you don't like, so I guess that makes us even. But then, I expect that from someone who apparently can't use search features worth a damn.

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[(Anonymous)]

...Your logic does not make sense to me. I post an opinion. People respond telling me to ignore the yaoi if it bothers me so much. I wonder, if those people can't ignore my one bitty secret in the middle of 40+ more, where do they get off telling me to ignore what appears to be 90% of fandom? Because it does work both ways. If I have to ignore the opinions of yaoi fans, then why do yaoi fans not have to ignore my opinion?

Onto a more serious topic. Search features fail. If I want het or worse, gen fic featuring a male character, character filters don't work. And most archives don't actually let you filter out the type of pairing yet.

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[kristenell.livejournal.com]

So much word here. I ship some pairings that nobody likes, or het in slash heavy fandoms, or even slash in het heavy fandoms, but I don't think the fact that my tastes fall out of step with most of fandom is really hurting me, and even with how much there is, it has been plenty easy to avoid.

I mean that is what search features are for, so you can find what you want, and it was not like if the slashers weren't writing slash would be a guarantee that they would write something you like.

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[dorknessrising.livejournal.com]

I crackship like nobody's business. Mostly because it winds up being either hilarious or hot, but equally entertaining. The best is when it's both. See icon for details.

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[kristenell.livejournal.com]

I have tried to crack ship, but I can't get into it outside of in jokes with friends and short vignettes. It is frustrating at times, because I want in on the fun.

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[dorknessrising.livejournal.com]

The trick is not to take it seriously or expect a whole lot out of it. I find the in-jokes, drabbles, and vignettes do plenty for me, because my interest in the pairing isn't very deep to begin with. It's more for lolfactor anyway.

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[kusanivy.livejournal.com]

Please bare with me, while I digress a moment and tell a little story.

I love Spider-Man for various reasons. I have several friends who like Batman. I am not overly fond of Batman. Most conversations I had about him until very recently went like this:

Me: I like Spider-Man.
Friends: Ha! Why? Batman's so much cooler.
Me: I like his powers. And he's funny.
Friends: Batman doesn't have powers - that makes him SO much
cooler than Spider-Man

I grew to HATE Batman. Not so much because of the character but because of the way my friends reacted to me not liking the character. They framed all their arguments in such a way as to make me feel inferior just because I didn't share their opinion.

Recently I made a new friend and a very similar discussion to the old Batman/Spider-Man debate popped up.

Me: *repeats opinions over why I like Spidey and not Bats*
New Friend: One's not better than the other, they're just different. Personally, I like Batman better but given what you told me about your preferences I can see why you like Spidey more. And I can see why you really don't like Batman if that's the reaction you got in the past.

Now, which conversation do you think I walked away from feeling better about? Which do you think actually lead to more mature discussion? Even though she disagreed with me, my new friend at least acknowledged that I could have a different opinion than her. And you know what? She's actually got me reading Batman stuff now...

Look, all the OP and the tl:dr commenter are asking for is to have their opinions acknowledged (NOT agreed with merely acknowledged) without being treated like idiots. They are not saying yaoi is evil. They are not saying they think it should stop. They are just saying they don't like it, and that they should have the right to say they don't like it without being macroed to death ro treated like fanbrats

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[(Anonymous)]

Oh man, thank you. Thank you very much.

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[(Anonymous)]

I get where you're coming from. Really. From what I'm reading, you're saying if the other side would just acknowledge your pain, then everything would settle down and you could move on.

The problem is, we each have to take personal responsibility for our own issues. Sure, it'd be nice if other people would just do "fill in the blank", but it's not something we can sit back and expect. Expectations of other people's actions just leads to disappointment. So we have to take control of our own environment. Maybe that means putting boundaries on our discussions of Batman vs Spiderman.

I know I'm sounding like Dr. Ruth here, but all we've been doing so far is picking at scabs and it's not getting us anywhere. The more people pick at scabs, the more back and forth occurs, the more heated things get, the more wording gets sloppy, the more offense gets taken, until finally someone (on whatever side) is able to say, "Aha! I knew it," and flounce off with the satisfaction that their thoughts on yaoi were finally proven correct(after enough picking at the scab).

I'd rather just quit picking.

You have all the right in the world to pick at a scab out in a public forum and say you don't like yaoi. Question is... what does it accomplish?

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[drworm.livejournal.com]

>:( What is all this reasonableness, it does not belong!

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[(Anonymous)]

...It accomplishes the removal of a scab and a couple of interesting conversations?

Mostly, though, it has been a release gauge. I bottle everything remotely contraversial, because I know it brings the wank. So I actually got to state my opinion, and now I feel better. It's done! My opinion is online! I have actually said something, and I have gotten support, polite disagreement, and what looks very like an accusation of homophobia. Plus macros.

It's oddly liberating. Which is kind of the point, really, of any secrets blog or comm, isn't it?

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[(Anonymous)]

what interesting conversations? haven't a lot of the anons been going on about screetching at each other and flinging shit and twigs in their 'rightness' on the subject?

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[ryuutchi.livejournal.com]

Erh. I think you missed the point that people have, several times, in the comments here said "yeah, we know. It sucks."

The fact that people have said that and no one acknowledges it sort of pokes holes in your theory.

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[(Anonymous)]

http://community.livejournal.com/fandomsecrets/107510.html?thread=24924662#t24924662
http://community.livejournal.com/fandomsecrets/107510.html?thread=24784886#t24784886

I point you to my two favourite responders? &heart; Polite debate and disagreement, and I feel much better for it, because although they clearly do not agree with me, they bring new viewpoints for me to look at that aren't about how stupid/homophobic/hate-filled I am.

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[drworm.livejournal.com]

God damn but you're pompous.

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[ryuutchi.livejournal.com]

Yes. What I was pointing out is that most people either said some variation of "deal with it" or "yeah it sucks, whatev." But the commenter above essentially said "If only people would acknowledge het fan's PAIN, we wouldn't hate yaoi so much!" which is a) a flat out lie, since plenty of yaoi fans are het fans and we understand and acknowledge it's a bitch and still think you should get over it, and b) ignores the fact that there were people sympathizing and it didn't change much of anything.

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[drworm.livejournal.com]

Way to trivialize by making a comparison to comic book characters.

Friends: Batman doesn't have powers - that makes him SO much
cooler than Spider-Man

It does make him more badass.

And, therefore, cooler.

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[dorknessrising.livejournal.com]

ILU.

That is all.

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[agentmoreau.livejournal.com]

Because fandom is always MUCH MORE SERIOUS BUSINESS than comic books.

*points at above cat macro*

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[drworm.livejournal.com]

Fandom is not wholly separate from real world issues. Fandom is not completely free of things like heterocentrism. Yes, it's a little off-putting to see this topic equated with "omg, Batman or Spidey u guyz?" And no matter how much the people who aren't down with slash or yaoi or whatever try to say that they aren't homophobic, well... every rant, every discussion I've ever seen or been in on the topic has come off as vaguely tinged with homophobia and a general lack of awareness of how cultural/societal norms can be bigoted. Like it or not, we all bring baggage to fandom.

And I see no cat macro, but it was probably lame anyway.

Re: 27: A theory on all the recent yaoi posts

[dorknessrising.livejournal.com]

Wow. If you let fans make you hate the source, you really are doing it wrong.

And honey? They're only being treated like idiots because they're acting like idiots. If they'd left out the the "I want to read my gen/het without having to see all this icky boysex" line, it would've been a reasonable secret. But that part? There is no way to read that except "make it stop so I can read my fic in peace." And that, my dear friend, is called an entitlement complex.

Fans will write and post what they want to write and post. Don't like it? Tough shit. You don't get to dictate what fandom produces for your own convenience. Either learn how to use search filters, or wade through the crapfic like the rest of us and shut up.