fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2862 ]

[ SECRET POST #2862 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2862 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 042 secrets from Secret Submission Post #409.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - random textless image ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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That's not exactly the same thing that the secret maker was referring to though. Squeeing about a ship is one thing, but interpreting them as "not being able to love anyone else half as much" is basically accidental character-bashing, as it implies those two characters are pretty fucking terrible narcissistic people. Which might be a lot more irritating than squeeful shipping for other people who like those characters but don't ship them or who don't ship them in quite as zero-sum a way.

Maybe it's just me but…I do think that it's possible to meet someone that completely changes your life -- to the point where nothing would ever be the same without them.

I say that because my grandparents are like this. Even after 50 years, they're still SO in love. They show a level of devotion and care to each other that's unbelievable. And my mother's basically accepted the fact that when her mother (my grandmother who has a heart condition) dies that my grandfather will follow quickly.

I don't think that makes them terrible or narcissistic, though.

If you equate loving one person deeper than others as narcissistic then I genuinely feel sorry for you.

Loving one person more deeply than others at the moment is not the same as never being able to love anyone else half as much.

I never said "at the moment."

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Any relationship is of the moment. We like to think that a happy relationship will last forever, but very often it does not. That does not rule the possibility of loving another person fully as much--and perhaps even more--at some future time. But naive people always imagine that you can only ever really love once, and that if you ever love again, one or the other is second best.

No one said any of that. Neither the secret nor me. Whatever you're taking out of this about being second best is on you.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-04 03:50 (UTC) - Expand

Naive is believing love is egalitarian.

If you love someone more deeply than you love anyone else, that's perfectly understandable. But so much deeper that you'd "never" be "able" to love anyone else half as much? Even if they died and you lived on for another fifty years? That says very little about your capacity for love or the specialness of your partner or the quality of your relationship. If you become unable to ever love anyone else even half as much as one particular person, then you're actually talking about some personal, entirely self-centered fantasy in your head.

Now, there are other layers to relationships -- saying you'll never find someone who understands you quite so perfectly, or who has these particular special unique traits, or who clicks with you in quite the same way, or is ever quite as important to you because of the timing of that relationship in your life. That's a bit of a different matter, because that's more about the logistics of a human lifespan, not about your capacity to love.

As with most fandom things, this becomes an issue when you can't separate reality from fiction. I like soulmate kind of themes in fanfic, but seeing people try to apply it to themselves or others is very disconcerting. I also like time travel, magic with detailed 'rules', and avian humanoids that probably couldn't fly with real physics applied.

Don't get me wrong, it's perfectly fine to prefer realism in fictional relationships, the problem comes when you try to bring people down for liking what you don't like.

Wait, how is that "narcississtic"? Wouldn't that imply that the characters wouldn't be able to love anyone else half as much as themselves? The characters in this scenario wouldn't even love each other as much themselves individually.

I wouldn't call it character bashing. Some characters would work well in relationships. Some would not. It really depends on the characters and their compatibility.

Now, back to the secret: whether some people strictly ship a pairing, or multiship whatever, as long as they aren't rude about it with other people, it should be fine because its all essentially fictional. Sure, we all can get caught up in shipping, but we just have to remember to take a step back and tone it down a bit as a common courtesy to others.

Idealizing a romantic partner as part of a fantasy of perfect love is a narcissistic character trait--in fact, it's one of the diagnostic criteria.

That has nothing to do with the depth of love you feel for someone though. You can love someone more deeply than you love anyone else and still be well aware of their flaws and imperfections, as well as your own. Actually I'd say that'd be a requirement of that sort of depth of love.

You're confusing "deep" with "idealized" which makes no sense.

No, you're the one who brought ~deep into this. The narcissistic fantasy is the idea that two people could never love anyone "half so much" as they do each other. The idea that there is one and only perfect person for you, a love that eclipses all other love.

And for some people it's true. It still doesn't make them narcissists.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-04 04:32 (UTC) - Expand

I'd say that anyone who can't care about anyone half as much as their romantic partner is vastly more likely to be obsessed with their own fantasy than having genuine deep love for another human being. Like the above anon said.

Now, if they simply don't care about anyone else half as much -- because, say, they happen to live a life where everyone else around them is an asshole/untrustworthy/dangerous/corrupt or if they have some kind of secret that forces them to stop themselves from forming emotional attachments to anyone else, that's a somewhat different matter.

"Now, if they simply don't care about anyone else half as much -- because, say, they happen to live a life where everyone else around them is an asshole/untrustworthy/dangerous/corrupt or if they have some kind of secret that forces them to stop themselves from forming emotional attachments to anyone else, "

I think that's incredibly disingenuous. People do not care about those close to them with the same level of intensity. There are people they are about more, and people they care about less, and there isn't anything wrong with that. It's normal. And for you to go hyperbolic about it and present it as some either/or thing is ridiculous, hurtful, and completely beside the point, which is simply that loving someone deeply doesn't make you incapable of loving someone else deeply.

loving someone deeply doesn't make you incapable of loving someone else deeply.

But...that was exactly my point?

Anyway, sorry, perhaps I didn't word this clearly: I didn't mean that if you love a special someone more than you love any other person, that's unhealthy.

What I meant was if you are INCAPABLE of EVER loving anyone even HALF as much as that special someone, then that's unhealthy.

Emphasis on all the capitalized words, especially "incapable."

Oh, okay. Thank you for the clarification.

One more question, under 'somewhat different matters', what if that character who genuinely deeply loves another character, happens to only display sexual attraction only toward that character? (There's a trope called Single-Target Sexuality. In real life, it is known as demisexuality) What are your thoughts?

I have no thoughts about this because I've never known anyone or read anything about this. I'd assume such a character would still be able to form deep close relationships with other people, just not sexual ones.

Where does fantasy/idealization come into it though? Are you genuinely arguing that it's not possible to love some deeply while still being aware that neither they nor you are anywhere near 'perfect.'

Is everyone deeply in love, then, according to your definition, vaguely deluded?

Not at all? How did you get any of that from my comment?

What I meant was that love doesn't really work like...I dunno, an ovary. You don't just run out of love after you expend a certain quantity on someone. So if you love someone truly and deeply, that should not be synonymous with not really caring about any other people.

How did you get "running out of love" out of ANY of these comments?

How did you get "not loving someone else as much" as being "can't care about other people at all"?

People will love different people to different degrees. They may continue to do so after the relationship has ended. If you call things like that unhealthy or narcissistic then you're calling human nature unhealthy and narcissistic.

(no subject)

intrigueing - 2014-11-04 03:29 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-04 03:50 (UTC) - Expand

It's just idealization, which is pretty common in fiction and doesn't really hurt anyone when applied to fictional people, as long as the person is rational about it (which OP's family member apparently isn't.) It can get annoying, especially if you happen to ship one of said characters with someone else, but you seem to be implying that it's harmful somehow.

Oh, no, in fiction it's not harmful at all, don't get me wrong, but it CAN feel like accidental character bashing, which is IMO a more valid reason to be annoyed than just "they ship something I don't like."

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